New healer idea: Necromancer

[Jirah]

Besides the lore issues and the pet job issue that the producer hates, I’m down. I love Necromancer as a concept but it would bare too similar to Summoner skills with sickness and toxins and pets. I have some ideas that I don’t feel compelled to share but as a healer it would be very bare bones compared to the big 3 and wouldn’t keep up or be far too simple which FF14 needs to stop making easy jobs simple jobs so mindless and spammy a toddler can do its rotation

[Semirhage]

What do they hate about pets? They could be temporary summons so they're less like pets and more like fancy dots. Undead tend to be mindless anyway. Or do they not like jobs summoning creatures at all.

It's tough to code and balance them unless they're little more than DoTs, at least that's the impression from what I've heard. I'd imagine there's a tradeoff between giving them AI and making them controllable, animation locking, the Scholar ability loss bug that still hasn't been fixed, etc. Plus they've run into a balancing issue with FF14 in particular: giving one (or two) classes what amounts to a separate, secondary GCD in a game where your action economy is king can get overpowered really, really fast, even more so when that secondary GCD is highly responsive and the abilities on it are as strong as normal character abilities. The ability to effectively cast two spells at the same time can run away with balance pretty quickly. Why do you think they keep nerfing poor Lily?

[Tulzscha]

While traditional presentation always has grim reaper and graveyard motifs...the Romans also had them culturally as mediums and fortune tellers. Not sure when it turned to undead armies and such, but there are plenty of real world cultural influences to use that doesn't require an undead pet or cliche presentation.

You know that reminds me of the Revenant class from GW2. It basically calls on notable heroes from the past to empower themselves. Which in FF would probably play more like a Morpher. "Necromancer" is such a loaded term nowadays, it's much more interesting without all the cliché baggage but that's what people would expect.

There are plenty of obscure jobs in FF that could be used for the name though: Mystic, Oracle, Sage, Magus, Devout, Sorcerer, all generic names that could mean a lot of things. Take one of those names for a job that interacts with spirits and there ya go, a non-edgy "death mage" that can be built any which way since a lot of those old jobs had little to no identity and a ton of overlap anyway. We've already received aid from spirits in the game's story sort of so sounds good to me.

[GrimGale]

Not sure how Chemist would work, they literally just use items and everyone in FFXIV can already use items.

I don't get this argument. I also don't get the whole, we can't have Chemist because Alchemist is already a thing.

To me it's like saying we can't have Doctors because we already have Pharmaceutic companies. Why do we need Doctors? Everybody can just use drugs.

It's one thing to make the healing stuff, it's another to know how to use it and when to use it. Especially in battle.

If the name is too similar, there are other names that can be used that still describe a technique based, non-magic healer, such as Surgeon, Medic, Pysician, Doctor. Even Pharmacist, Salve-Maker, Apothecary if you want to give it dip into the medicine crafting territory.

Regarding Necromancer, I just don't see a way where the classic gothic Dark Spellcaster that raises corpses and curses enemies with decay is going to get into the healing role.

Maybe a more spiritual version of comuning with the dead, like a Shaman or a Sender (Like Yuna) would be more appropriate.

[Tulzscha]

I don't get this argument. I also don't get the whole, we can't have Chemist because Alchemist is already a thing.

To me it's like saying we can't have Doctors because we already have Pharmaceutic companies. Why do we need Doctors? Everybody can just use drugs.

It's one thing to make the healing stuff, it's another to know how to use it and when to use it. Especially in battle.

If the name is too similar, there are other names that can be used that still describe a technique based, non-magic healer, such as Surgeon, Medic, Pysician, Doctor. Even Pharmacist, Salve-Maker, Apothecary if you want to give it dip into the medicine crafting territory.

Doctors don't make drugs, entirely different profession.

Well ok the only Chemist I knew was from Tactics where it's a job you train to use items and that's it, your characters couldn't use items without it, and everyone in FFXIV can already use items buuut I just looked it up and apparently they can combine and increase the effectiveness of items which is certainly more interesting, but as a combat profession? Do you have to stock up on items before every fight or do they just appear out of thin air? Either way is just weird and Alchemist already makes items so ehh doesn't work so well imo. Are there any other job names like that in Final Fantasy?

And how would a non-magic healer work flavor-wise, you chuck syringes at people's faces? Smash a potion on them so the glass cuts em open for the potion to get in and do its work? Is it a melee thing and you have to run over to each person to stitch them up? Not trying to be an asshole I just don't see it. :hmm:

[Mimilu]

Well ok the only Chemist I knew was from Tactics where it's a job you train to use items and that's it, your characters couldn't use items without it, and everyone in FFXIV can already use items buuut I just looked it up and apparently they can combine and increase the effectiveness of items which is certainly more interesting, but as a combat profession? Do you have to stock up on items before every fight or do they just appear out of thin air? Either way is just weird and Alchemist already makes items so ehh doesn't work so well imo. Are there any other job names like that in Final Fantasy?

Most people who suggest Chemist usually reference X-2's Alchemist, who could use "Stashed" version of items, which were just cost free skills that would do what the item their named after did but with a longer charge time (X-2's version of a cast times, but every action had, not just spells). Alchemist did also have the Mix ability, along with traits that increased the potency and decreased charge time of items but all of those only worked on regular items, not Stashed ones. It also helps that Alchemist used guns and had an Al Bhed aesthetic (high-tech fantasy with a little military thrown in).

[Tulzscha]

Most people who suggest Chemist usually reference X-2's Alchemist, who could use "Stashed" version of items, which were just cost free skills that would do what the item their named after did but with a longer charge time (X-2's version of a cast times, but every action had, not just spells). Alchemist did also have the Mix ability, along with traits that increased the potency and decreased charge time of items but all of those only worked on regular items, not Stashed ones. It also helps that Alchemist used guns and had an Al Bhed aesthetic (high-tech fantasy with a little military thrown in).

Ok, I see, thank you. So more like magitek than real life healing? That'd fit right in for sure.

[BasicBlake]

I don't get this argument. I also don't get the whole, we can't have Chemist because Alchemist is already a thing.

To me it's like saying we can't have Doctors because we already have Pharmaceutic companies. Why do we need Doctors? Everybody can just use drugs.

It's one thing to make the healing stuff, it's another to know how to use it and when to use it. Especially in battle.

If the name is too similar, there are other names that can be used that still describe a technique based, non-magic healer, such as Surgeon, Medic, Pysician, Doctor. Even Pharmacist, Salve-Maker, Apothecary if you want to give it dip into the medicine crafting territory.

Regarding Necromancer, I just don't see a way where the classic gothic Dark Spellcaster that raises corpses and curses enemies with decay is going to get into the healing role.

Maybe a more spiritual version of comuning with the dead, like a Shaman or a Sender (Like Yuna) would be more appropriate.

I will have to agree with you in this one, especially when comparing chemist to alchemist. Why do people NEED another healer, you guys have white mage?

I feel like chemist is one of the few cases of a healer speculation that doesnt step on the toes of another healer these days. You get some form of mix function to use on allies/enemies. If anything it's a newish take on a healer role I could see actually being implemented over a Zombie Healer. Geomancer healer would just be old whm animations, so it's probably the feng shui caster Yoshi was discussing before Stormblood, and adding Time Mage is just, "here is a few re-purposed Ast scraps."

[Malkria]

Regarding Necromancer, I just don't see a way where the classic gothic Dark Spellcaster that raises corpses and curses enemies with decay is going to get into the healing role.

Maybe a more spiritual version of comuning with the dead, like a Shaman or a Sender (Like Yuna) would be more appropriate.

Well "raising the dead" can take many forms. For example in ESO one of the abilities is to raise a "spirit healer" which basically acts like a mobile and short lived AOE heal. To make it different then say a fairy and work in FF14 you could maybe cast it on the tank, and have it fly over and do it's thing. It would in effect be like a zone Medica II just with a summon animation and targeted. This is just one form it could take.

You could have curses and hexes that build up resources for healing, or simply have them pulse out a portion of the damage they do as healing. You could have spirits that "haunt" a target that reward damage done to the target by healing each PC with either a portion of their individual damage back to heal them or as a combined pulse heal for everyone. That especially would not only free up the healer to do damage, but rewards everyone for playing well. But there are a LOT of things you can do based around spirits, healing, and even with dark and gloomy if you want to go that route.

Again the concept of a "necromancer" has been a cultural and even religious thing for years. Heck, there is the story of Lazarus for goodness sake! Many use it for communing with the dead, or even helping troubled spirits to rest easier. Yes in game terms many expect a certain aesthetic..but so? Look at glamour that people make around jobs, like say the DRK, and tell me that people can't make the dark and broody into something a bit lighter?

[GrimGale]

Doctors don't make drugs, entirely different profession.

Yes, that was my point. And then you say it's wierd to have Alchemist in with Chemist.

Alchemist makes drugs. Chemist uses them.

As for the mechanics of how would they work, lemme tell you:

Magic.

Do Bards need to replentish their quivers?

Same logic. Ranged classes don't use ammunition, why would the chemist have to replentish his stash.