PvP in this game is an afterthought and it shows

[Commander_Justitia]

It's definitely a flaw of the mode if one role holds a disproportionate amount of the responsibility for success

I mean just play healer if there are some newbies in the queue, if its ranking points you are after, and you think they play way worse than others. And just btw, last season dancer got rank 1 on multiple datancenter, a range job.
Range role is just very popular in the community and yeah they don't have much responsibility, but doesn't mean they are not important to get a win, they might have carried more than all other jobs last season maybe even still.

And go on, ask healer top100 players how they like their healer atm, many good healers already quit lol, it is so much trouble to heal people who are not using their potions, they can't carry as they used to in the past. Maybe this discussion would have been more appropriate in the past, but now it feels like beating a dead horse, as if some players cant 1vs1 a healer in a duel and come complaining :/

Anyway, I have said way too much already, I am sure SE knows that PvP isn't as spicy as it used to be - I think they lack to see the potential it could have or could have had the last years. Even if it was brandmarked as bad, it isn't unplayable and some people I meet or see ingame, actually stick to PvP and keep playing it despise the grim outlook they had in the first place (generated by a salty pve reddit community I guess).

I just can recommend focusing on whats really important when you make suggestions, what is a top priority issue you want to see fixed and what is only a minor annoyance that you happen to experience once or twice. I feel like the mode needs "fun" back first of all, to me it feels balancing actually killed the enjoyment even more over the last seasons. See you around

[Stormfur]

That is not a design flaw, it is the flaw of the player queueing into a Ranked PvP mode, when he has no single clue how to use his heals.

To be fair though, the game doesn't exactly do a good job of guiding you in that. You need to hope that some high-rank PVP player has made a video or that you can join a Discord and ask. Even PVE has the Novice Hall. PVP actively tells you to just "get in there and do it." When you're accustomed to pretty much having your hand held starting out in the PVE world, you naturally think PVP is going to be similar, and it's jarring when it isn't.

Right now, PVP in FFXIV is very carrot-and-stick, but the stick is coated in barbed wire and set on fire. It's the equivalent of tying your arms and legs together and telling you to swim. Why do it, then? Everyone has their reasons but for myself, I like trying to improve and working toward a goal. I might never get there, but I'll certainly give it my best. I like the competition and having the results to show for my efforts. But by the same token, the way Feast is set up is abysmally punishing - more than a game should be.

[Myon88]

I mean just play healer if there are some newbies in the queue

The thing is I like being ranged (or melee), I play pvp to smack people in the face not be a nanny for their hp bars. It just means I'll go play another game instead that aligns better with my interests, like Street Fighter, or Starcraft or something. I'm actually happy to lose 10 times in a row over there, because at least the outcome is deterministic, and I can blame myself for a loss. Why would I ever pick the feast over options like that?

Don't get me wrong, I still play now and then because while not amazing, pvp here is a.. barely acceptable diversion, and I'm already playing ffxiv for other reasons. But I'm under no illusion it will ever see wide mainstream popularity. Even WoW at its peak with a 10x bigger playerbase could not push arenas into the mainstream.

Anyway, like I said I don't think it's a fixable problem as long as trinity mmos want to shoehorn that trinity into pvp modes. I think SE would be better served playing to the strengths of the genre than trying to do that. Any of you played Destiny2? They have a PvEvP gamemode 'gambit', that's sort of like a competitive timed dungeon where periodically one player can invade the other team and try and disrupt them for a short time. I think that's a far better fit for a pve focused game than trying to do a 1:1 port of arena deathmatch style gameplay.

[Divinemights]

Blade and Soul was build with PVP in mind and centered around Esports PVP. There's even tournaments for it.
Black Desert has PVP at it's core. Open world PVP, once you're level 50 you're free game for anyone to murder you. And there are faction wars and you can declare wars on other guilds and have free reign to kill them on sight with very little repercussions in the open world.

Having a tournament doesn't mean it is a successful PvP mmo; for example, FF11 had Ballista Royale and FF14 had NA region Feast.
All these none tag target MMO all looks impressive at PvP perspective of view but they all failed on PvE side to make it successful.
You simply can't not create PvE mechanic with none tag target system beside slash and dodge.
Just imagine Destiny 2 with blade, it is not impressive.
PvP and MMO simply will never blend in well together and PvP will always be the side-dish.
If you really want a fair PvP, I really think it is either FPS or DOTA, you shouldn't expect too much from MMORPG

I personally think the biggest mistake they made with PVP is not splitting it up enough. For PVE we have several levels of difficulty. We start with Expert Dungeons -> Normal Raiding-> EX Trials -> Savage Raiding -> Ultimate raiding. For PVP we have Frontlines -> Feast.

Imagine if the proposed change for getting more people into EX Trials was to gimp down all the classes to like 10 functionally very similar spells from job to job but aesthetically different. The entire community would be outraged.

I'm surprised they haven't fired the current PVP team.

EDIT: I made an assumption thinking this game has a PVP team, I actually meant the interns that get assigned to work on the PVP of XIV every 8 months during their break from University

You simply can't further splitting up because PvP community in this FF14 is very small.
It is not big enough to even support team vs team Feast after Frontline is introduced as FF14 version of battleground
They have to corner back to by using WoW's training arena and label it as "competitive" PvP when in truth we all know such system is heavily impact by RNG and is not true competitive.

They do have a PvP team that periodically hosting Adrenaline TV to communicate with their PvP community but as you can see, they are Japanese devs and will communicate with Japanese player base instead.
Their PvP balance slowly shifting away from smaller scale 4 v 4 trinity into team scale mass PvP.
This is an approach they are taking and yes it is much different than WoW.
You then will need to pick and choose, WoW for smaller scale PvP or FF14 for larger scale PvP.

[Shinklet]

Every so often, usually about every two seasons or so, there is usually a wave of new players, that identify that feast, as it stands is not redeemable and the gameplay needs to be redone from the ground up, with the server tick rates, it can be done.

But like every new wave, in about 6 months you too will realise how little attention square gives to the gameplay of pvp and it's only getting lower.

It's good to see that people are starting to realise that pvp 'doesn't need more glams and a wolf mark/wolf collar store' but first a gameplay redesign and a progression system akin to an actual pvp game.

[Stormfur]

It's good to see that people are starting to realise that pvp 'doesn't need more glams and a wolf mark/wolf collar store' but first a gameplay redesign and a progression system akin to an actual pvp game.

Well, before any of that, it would sure be nice to have someone come in and say " hey, we hear your feedback, we know Feast is barely clinging to life. We tried some things, they didn't work, so here's what we're going to do. (proceed to actually make real change and not just put a bandage over a gaping wound). I mean, something, anything to show that we're being heard and not just " here's another season of continuing to bash your head into a desk and what do you mean hallowed ground went off but you still died? LOLticks"

THEN we can talk about that wolf collar store... ._.

[Divinemights]

Rated 8v8v8 is your answer and Rated Premade 8v8v8 after the PvP population stabilized.
This is the only thing I can think of if you want to get out of 4 v 4 Trinity style since FF14's PvE system is established based on it

[Nanne]

Rated 8v8v8 is your answer and Rated Premade 8v8v8 after the PvP population stabilized.
This is the only thing I can think of if you want to get out of 4 v 4 Trinity style since FF14's PvE system is established based on it

3 sided ranked PvP sounds very very very dangerous...

[Rieze_Xeero]

What's really annoying specially in ranked feast is the timed locked rewards. The community knows PVP is not perfect, has flaws etc but the rewards should not be that exclusive. More exclusive than raids and ultimate. That's really what I don't get. I get the title and the trophy but the mounts? the gear? It's like they forgot this whole game is built upon glamour and mounts. I always play feast and I don't "hate" it. But I really don't understand the exclusivity it gets. To win a feast match you need a few factors, time, skill and luck with team mates (and healer). YES luck! O well it will never change. They won't listen anymore unlike back when they started the forums in 1.0.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

What's really annoying specially in ranked feast is the timed locked rewards. The community knows PVP is not perfect, has flaws etc but the rewards should not be that exclusive. More exclusive than raids and ultimate. That's really what I don't get. I get the title and the trophy but the mounts? the gear? It's like they forgot this whole game is built upon glamour and mounts. I always play feast and I don't "hate" it. But I really don't understand the exclusivity it gets. To win a feast match you need a few factors, time, skill and luck with team mates (and healer). YES luck! O well it will never change. They won't listen anymore unlike back when they started the forums in 1.0.

Incentive to do Feast and get good at it.

What is the point of literally anything if not incentive?