Red Mage Opener confusion

[Silverquick]

Holding acceleration doesn't "get you to first melee" faster. Quickest case scenario is still 8th gcd, because the quickest case scenario is Acceleration's guarantee of 3 procs.

Holding it is actually a 25% chance to delay it until the 10th GCD with mana overcap from Manaficiation.

I don't even think that's true.

Because a Proc at high level procs three times in a row just like Acceleration.

So if your opening cast procs, you have 3 in a row. Then at that point if the next cast after that doesn't proc, the you can hit Acceleration... or it might just proc again so you've got another 3 procs coming.

This is why I said what I did.

I understand trying to "force" stabilize it per se the way Rongway is talking about... but that still doesn't change how fast or slow you're going to end up in your melee combos, because they are completely unpredictable.

Which in my opinion is why RDM DPS has such a huge disparity between high and low damage. The Rotation just does not follow a set pattern because of the way the Job and Procs work.

[Leidiriv]

Well that quite frankly is why, I don't make the decision whether to use Acceleration or not until after my first cast.

If it procs on the first cast, you don't need to use Acceleration at that point which makes it moot, and you will get to your first Melee combo faster because you waited on it.

I can see Rongway's point in attempting to stablilize your Rotation for Raid buffs, but I just don't think you can do a predictable opener or even playstyle with RDM because of the Procs.

This kind of reasoning is why people ingame don't take RDM seriously. It's an extremely consistent class now that Acceleration gives 3 stacks, to the point where you can predict to the GCD when you'll enter any given melee combo before the fight starts, depending on whether you choose to delay Manafication to after the 9th in-fight GCD or not. As outlined on the first page, several posts above, you can easily outline four separate openers depending on when you want to enter your first melee combo (to generate more mana/use Swiftcast earlier, or to get more of your combo under raid buffs) and to give greater benefit from Embolden to your DPS depending on what GCD you use Embolden during. Holding onto Acceleration until after the first GCD is wasting roughly 15 seconds of its cooldown for no reason and throwing your entire opener (and likely the rest of the fight) into chaos, also for no reason.

[Rongway]

I don't think you really can use an "Opener" with RDM unless its just a guideline.

Primarily because you can't predict the RDM procs so it really kinda makes Acceleration kinda iffy when you try to use it.

Acceleration guarantees you get three procs and therefore are guaranteed to be able to Manafication into a melee combo after GCD 8.

There is far less RNG to RDM than many people believe. We get lots of guaranteed procs and mana rebates, and E.Reprise is in a good spot for burning mana when you get more procs than baseline.

[Nemekh]

Unfortunately, yes.

[KDSilver]

Acceleration exists for consistency in the rotation.
Not to counter a wrong fortune-teller scenario.

[Maero]

Acceleration also guarantees a proc.
There is a huge difference between someone that will wing it because Red Mage is not predictable over someone who runs content and likes to optimize and see big numbers.
Using acceleration other then in an opener is situational but i would say is not the best to do. (or you really mess up our balance)

And OP, it does take time to get used to, it did for me but after practice you should get the hang of it.
You could also modify it slightly or choose a different opener. I know balance discord has a few listed.
Myself i have used the X10 as it seems to be prefered. But i am now back again to my Shadowbringer main which is DNC.

[Leidolf]

As a Red Mage under Level 70, is there a reason not to go with something like: Embolden > Contre Sixte > Fleche > Swiftcast > Acceleration > VerAero > VerStone > VerThunder > VerFire > VerAero > VerStone > Manafication > Corps-a-Corps > Melee trio > Displacement for an opening?

[Nemekh]

Several reasons:

Never open with Embolden into damage oGCDs. Prepull Acceleration into a long cast should always be the way to go unless you're having to Jolt instead. Embolden is better a bit later aligned for party burst. It also does nothing for the damage oGCDs as they are all physical so the highest stacks are wasted.
Swift should never be used for the opening 1st GCD, although with C6 -> Fleche we're already behind.
The string of OGCDs is extremely GCD inefficient and is a big dps loss just from the GCDs it's not rolling.
CAC and Displacement are not used prior to Manafication resulting in further potency losses due to Manafication's resets overwriting available cooldowns.

You can adapt the current opener down, or use the original Stormblood era openers since the core of RDM did not change. All you're missing are certain pieces but the core remains the same.

[Leidolf]

Okay... I didn't know they were physical and not spells....

[Rongway]

As a Red Mage under Level 70, is there a reason not to go with something like: Embolden > Contre Sixte > Fleche > Swiftcast > Acceleration > VerAero > VerStone > VerThunder > VerFire > VerAero > VerStone > Manafication > Corps-a-Corps > Melee trio > Displacement for an opening?

(Additional side note: You absolutely must cast at least 8 spells before you can Manafication>Combo, so it's only possible to do the quoted bit if you're in a dungeon and have leftover mana from a trash pull.)


Each oGCD takes about 0.7s~0.75s (except Displacement, which takes noticeably longer). Each instant Spell also takes 0.7s. This means that in the span of one 2.35s~2.45s GCD, you have time to cast an instant spell and use two oGCDs (as long as neither is Displacement) without delaying your next GCD. This is why you don't want to use any more than two oGCDs at a time. If you use those five oGCDs at the beginning, you're effectively losing spells that you could have cast for lots of damage, because in the same amount of time that it takes to do

(oGCD1+oGCD2+oGCD3)
(oGCD4+oGCD5)
Spell
Spell+Spell

you could have done

(oGCD1)
Spell+Spell (oGCD2+oGCD3)
Spell+Spell (oGCD4+oGCD5)



I would recommend practicing this opener, which is a potion-less modification of one of the Balance RDM openers:

10s before pull: (Acceleration)
5s before pull: start casting Veraero
(Veraero finishes)+Verthunder (Fleche+ContreSixte) *** run up to the mob during the instant Verthunder so you can Displace after the next Dualcast
Verstone+Veraero (Displacement)
Verfire+Verthunder (Corps-a-corps+Embolden) *** Embolden boosts party members better here. Use later if being selfish
Verstone+Verthunder (Manafication+Corps-a-corps)
begin Enchanted combo

If rushed pull with no precast time:

(Acceleration)
Jolt+Veraero (Fleche+ContreSixte) *** run up to the mob during the instant spell so you can Displace after the next Dualcast
Verstone+Verthunder (Displacement)
Verfire+Veraero (Corps-a-Corps+Embolden)
Verstone+Verthunder
>>>Proc) Verfire+Veraero
>>>NoProc) (Swiftcast)Verthunder
(Manafication+Corps-a-Corps)
begin Enchanted combo