5.X Relic Feedback Thread

[StriderShinryu]

It does seem strange that the AF gear is locked behind EX. What I would like to see is, once the next Relic Weapon step becomes available given what they've already said about how it will be obtainable, add an option there to be able to collect the AF gear that way as well. Make the EX the quick (and first) way to get your AF gear but allow everyone else to get it via other means later on.

[Lambdafish]

But we also knew from precedent at that time that the dyeable AF would likely be available outside of raids through the upgrade items being added to Alliance raids and Hunts in 3.1 (which they were, a full equivalent patch before they were added in Shadowbringers, even).

Having it behind this EX trial is effectively worse than having it behind Gordias because at least we could be reasonably sure then that we'd be getting it in HW based on past patches. As things stand now, there very well may *not* be another way to get dyeable AF in Shadowbringers without doing the EX trial, since they have not historically made EX trial rewards available through other means.

Using the same logic, we know from precedent that SE makes relics easier to get as the expansion progresses. Titania and Innocense are faceroll and brain-dead now, they were not in 5.0. SE might go even further with this trial.

I love that we actually have engaging content in order to get the armor (we aren't even talking about the weapon, this is an extra thing on top of the relic). It'll get easier over time so those that don't want to do it don't have to, and the fight isn't even that hard. A friend of mine described it as "Mechanically engaging, but you can get 12 deaths and still win, so the challenge hardly matters". With such a low DPS check, it's accessible content, moreso than people are giving it credit for in this thread.

[Makeda]

Even the game knows tanks don't use Tenacity.

Get the DRK weapon and the Ruby ex weapon - the 'pick my best gear for me' tool tells you to toss the DRK weapon back and keep using the Ruby Ex one - despite 5 materia slots vs just 2... I'm assuming because of all that tenacity.

And all the tank weapons seem to have that issue - bad stats.

I get that this content was much easier than Ruby Ex... so sure. But the stats on the other weapons didn't seem as bad though I'm not as familiar there. Was this an across the board issue or just a tank one? Because the content is so easy I could see why it happened if it's true for other roles also...

[Melichoir]

Even the game knows tanks don't use Tenacity.

Get the DRK weapon and the Ruby ex weapon - the 'pick my best gear for me' tool tells you to toss the DRK weapon back and keep using the Ruby Ex one - despite 5 materia slots vs just 2... I'm assuming because of all that tenacity.

And all the tank weapons seem to have that issue - bad stats.

I get that this content was much easier than Ruby Ex... so sure. But the stats on the other weapons didn't seem as bad though I'm not as familiar there. Was this an across the board issue or just a tank one? Because the content is so easy I could see why it happened if it's true for other roles also...

Gonna use your post as an exampe and say something controversial.

Tenacity isnt terrible.

There I said it.

The popular myth is that Tenacity is the worst thing ever and anything with it on it is garbage, etc etc.

No, this isnt the case. Tenacity as a sub stat is ok. You get better bang for your buck out of the other stats, but youre not SoL just because one of your sub stats is Tenacity. When determining weaps you need to be looking at more than sub stats. You could have ideal sub stats on a weap, but if its 3 or 4 ATK below a weapon with less optimal stats, youll be gimping yourself. This is because Weapon Damage is a lot more heavily weighted than Primary stats, which are also more heavily weighted than sub stats. So if a weapon is +2 DMG, thats gonna make up for a lot of sub stats. This gets more complicated because its not a zero sum game. Having tenacity doesnt mean the stat does nothing damage wise. You will deal more damage if you have 1500 tenacity vs 400 tenacity. As I said, you wont get as much bang for your buck as Crit or DH.

Why It goes to RUBY weap is Im assuming (and this is a big assumption) is that at its base - meaning no materia - RBY weapon out damages the Relic weapon, probably by a small to ok margin. Im gonna bet that if it gets mathed out and tested the Relic weapon full melded will probably deal just as much damage as the RUBY weapon. It's only 'worse' in that you expend more resources to make it comparable. This would make sense since, honestly, getting your Stage 1 Relic weap is by and large easier than a ruby weapon.

Also I dont think this is isolated to tanks. Monk Relic Samsara has Crit/det weighted to Crit. RBY is Crit/DH with it weighted to DH. RBY weapons on paper are better. Again though, Pretty sure at the end of the day fully melded isnt going to yield to much difference in damage. 300 DH + 334 Det is gonna match 477 DH most likely.

[Eldevern]

Aside of the Ex matters... It's a 480 dyable AF... I don't get the logic.

If we take Eureka :
Gear : Start with non dyable AF, dyable AF and... next gear the next level of area.
Weapon : Basci weapon, upgrade with glow and next weapon without glow to upgrade the next level of area (kinda strange it should have start with a non dyable the next level but... never mind).

If they do do the opposite weapon <> gear it doesn't make sense to do this with the AF. It is supposed to be one AF at time each extension.

And if the gear is not planned to be upgraded... it is only 480?


Let's come back to the Ex matter.

If they want to create some incentive to make people run Ex... more than even a NM were needed. Is this in fact a tease for raid with Trust? When a MMO turns solo.

So... An Ex without mount, without specific weapon... Do they plan to mix Eureka where fate are replaced by Ex?! (When I read the description I more and more expect something like that : Ex-like and BA-like to replace fates and trash grinding. Do they... really expect this to be a better incentive than Eureka?)

[Bhatu]

Even the game knows tanks don't use Tenacity.

Get the DRK weapon and the Ruby ex weapon - the 'pick my best gear for me' tool tells you to toss the DRK weapon back and keep using the Ruby Ex one - despite 5 materia slots vs just 2... I'm assuming because of all that tenacity.

And all the tank weapons seem to have that issue - bad stats.

I get that this content was much easier than Ruby Ex... so sure. But the stats on the other weapons didn't seem as bad though I'm not as familiar there. Was this an across the board issue or just a tank one? Because the content is so easy I could see why it happened if it's true for other roles also...

Unfortunately, this is not true. All tank relics are better than Ruby EX because of the five slots on them. The math has been done on each, and all tanks comes out the same.

Raid > Augmented > Tome > Relic > Ruby

The only tank where this is slightly skewed is paladin: Always use Ruby Weapon shield over Relic, because there are no slots on offhand.

[Satarn]

Even the game knows tanks don't use Tenacity.

Get the DRK weapon and the Ruby ex weapon - the 'pick my best gear for me' tool tells you to toss the DRK weapon back and keep using the Ruby Ex one - despite 5 materia slots vs just 2... I'm assuming because of all that tenacity.

The Recommended Gear tool literally only cares for ilvl and nothing else - not materia slots, not sub stats, not even main stats - it goes as far as recommending caster/healer pieces to tanks while they're on the low levels when robes are still "All classes" as long as the ilvl is higher.

Ruby weapons and relics are the same ilvl, so it doesn't consider either better or worse for that reason - you can swap them and check - the result will be the same, it won't recommend you to change Relic for Ruby either. It has nothing to do with Tenacity.

[ForteNightshade]

Why It goes to RUBY weap is Im assuming (and this is a big assumption) is that at its base - meaning no materia - RBY weapon out damages the Relic weapon, probably by a small to ok margin. Im gonna bet that if it gets mathed out and tested the Relic weapon full melded will probably deal just as much damage as the RUBY weapon. It's only 'worse' in that you expend more resources to make it comparable. This would make sense since, honestly, getting your Stage 1 Relic weap is by and large easier than a ruby weapon.

Also I dont think this is isolated to tanks. Monk Relic Samsara has Crit/det weighted to Crit. RBY is Crit/DH with it weighted to DH. RBY weapons on paper are better. Again though, Pretty sure at the end of the day fully melded isnt going to yield to much difference in damage. 300 DH + 334 Det is gonna match 477 DH most likely.

It's already been mathed out. Every single relic weapon beats Ruby due to the five materia slots. Even Gunbreaker's DET/TEN comes out ahead, albeit by only a meager 15-20 DPS. But the relics on all the DPS are better. Not by any earth shattering difference mind you.

[Barraind]

(and this is a big assumption)

The short answer is that 40 of your best secondary stat and 120 of your second best isnt better than 340 of your worst secondary stat

Without situations where only 2 substats add meaningful impact (Say ninja's had a stance with high uptime that makes everything DHit, but they cant crit), 3 extra materia slots will almost always beat better stat allocation.

[Ivellior]

It's not eureka so that is a big plus for it. The story and solo instance/duty was interesting. The biggest downside it that it was a bit short.
They could have added a few dungeons in between (similar to the 2.0 relic quest) to pad the content, at least for the first weapon.
If they wanted to make it easy to get multiple weapons it's fine to keep the current scheme (ie just tomestones) but the acquisition of the first one should have had some extra busywork.