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  1. #1
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    4,649
    Character
    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80

    Revelations from Save the Queen

    My DMs are already full of questions so let's get to work!

    Update: I've finished the content and a lot of the questions I received did have plausible answers this time around! There is one inconsistency with the past lore book (the location of Bozja), one seemingly extraordinary exception (a non-pureblood Legatus), and one very questionable application of the Echo (prophecy) when taken alongside past explanations of how it works and the fact we just changed time. But, other than that, it's all glued together pretty damned well.

    Summary of New Information
    Hancock introduces us Marsak of the Bozjan Resistance, whose leader, Bajsaljen, has joined the Eastern Alliance. Dalmascan resistance forces continue to suffer from infighting, unable to consolidate under Lente's Tears publicly led by Fran. Meanwhile, the IVth Legion, acting from the central stronghold of Dalmasca, maintains a grip on Bozja, Dalmasca, and Nagxia. The resistance is secretly entrenched just outside of where Bozja was, in the wetlands of Gangos. Eorzea has sent so many supplies and people here, however, that is almost assuredly not secret now.

    After time time flip-flopping between Bozja being in Othard vs. southern Ilsabard, the latter has been chosen as the final site of the region of Bozja, west of Dalmasca. This contradicts Lore Book 1, but is consistent with the Gunbreaker story.

    Bozja was founded likely in the 3rd Astral as the Horthgar consolidated into one nation to resist the onslaught of Allag. It has been destroyed and rebuilt in the past, collapsing at least once in the Fourth Umbral Era before having a city-state in the Sixth Astral.

    Misija tells us "the whole story" in a way that shows some possible inconsistencies of the past will not become full inconsistencies. Midas, indeed, wiped the citadel off the face of the planet by [strike]accidentally[/strike] initiating a "teraflare"-like energy transfer from Dalamud. It did destroy the city, but some of the city's periphery in the region of Bozja remains.
    Bajsaljen reveals that the Garleans were working on anti-primal technology over five years before the primals first appeared. However, he also says that Darnus took up the mantle "five years later", so there may be an error here. I'll look into that.
    The resistance is looking to rally Bozjans around the myth of Gunnhildr's Blades - weapons blessed by gods used by the queen's forces against the Allagans. As always, the Fourth Astral Era led to the records of their making being lost, but Eorzean experts are already here trying to work it out.

    The IVth Legion was originally led by Basch van Gabranth, who 28 years ago perished due to ill health. His son, 20-year-old Noah, assumed full command of the Legion and continued its advance.
    This is a rather elegant solution, as it explains (A) how Noah is still kicking as a military leader so long after the invasion; he was young for a Legatus then and is now 48 and (B) perhaps why he needed to make use of Gaius's expertise during the Dalmascan uprisings.
    The IVth Legion is said to be unique in that the bulk of its forces are not native Garleans...the Gabranths included. Basch was from the Republic of Landis, whose defense against the Empire quickly collapsed and Basch swiftly bent the knee, consolidating his forces into a new Imperial legion with a reputation for steadfast loyalty. The IVth is thus largely able to use magicks, arcane evocation, and beasts in addition to artillery. Lion sas Helsos is currently leading support units to Bozja.
    I thought sas is as high as it goes for non-Garleans. It's a popular fan-fiction trope, but in it has that air of trying to play with the biggest toys and make the most special characters, so it feels strange to see it in the actual game. Is there a reason this rule was broken at this time and in this way?
    Varis did not appreciate the IVth as much as Solus and kept them distant from the capital, quelling rebellions in remote provinces to legions like the VIth to consolidate around the capital.

    Alamut Fortress north of Bozja was converted into Castrum Lacus Litore (Lakeshore), now held by Menenius rem Lanatus, whose family - despite having been cast from the Emperor's good graces - has served the legion for two generations.
    This NPC seems to be going out of his way to highlight that either there's a running theme of the IVth being built on people that have the most motivation to be seen well by the Empire ... or a theme of the IVth having unspoken internal agendas.

    UPDATE:
    It's very much the latter.
    While Gerolt and the resistance have worked out the weapons shape and materials, it was said they had divine inscriptions somehow marking the blades, and that the culture who made them had "seers" who were able to see memories with special crystals.

    The Baldesion scholar Mikoto is here, as well. Her manifestation of the Echo did not come with the ability to read memories, so we have to aid her. She speculates that the ancient "seers" were Echo-blessed, as well. We get some great confirmation about the different types of aether that make up the body - that memory is incorporeal aether, and that explicit and implicit memories may leave different "aetherial residue". It turns out the crystals indeed resonate with the Echo and allow for TARGETING memories in people, but whereas the Echo visions are wholly accurate (until you mess with them yourself), what you see through the crystal might be flawed.
    This is a great use of the different types of aether and different ways the Echo manifests.
    I know a lot of players wanted to know more about corporeal vs. incorporeal aether, memory, anima, and the like.
    Mikoto's Echo turns out to give her visions of the future...
    Using the Echo to see the future is another popular fan-fiction trope that the game itself has never touched. We have been told that the Echo makes people sensitive to the whispers of the soul, but how does that enable one to see through time? Moreover, how can one see through time at all, now that it can be changed? If Alexander's rules were still in play, we'd have some basis for speculation, but the Exarch broke them!
    Once inside of Cid's memory, we see the final days of Bozja. After many years, the strong suggestion has been fully confirmed: Midas was tempered by Bahamut. Moreover, he shot his own son to prevent him from interfering in the project, something Cid has never been able to admit to himself. Thankfully, Cid had seen the very weapons we seek to recreate, giving us the ability to see them through his memory and pass the knowledge onto the resistance.

    ... ... ... Is Gabranth talking about Asura?
    Reactions
    Personally, I think this story blends together the lore from different expansions very well.
    • Bozja Citadel (1.0)
    • Garlean civil war fallout (2.0)
    • Cid's trauma
    • Garlean conquest history
    • The IVth Legion (4.0/5.0)
    • Ivalice (4.0)
    • Whatever Gabranth is up to... (???)
    If you follow the story as closely as I do, that's impressive. The history of Garlean conquest alone was only just recently cleaned up. 1.0 and 2.0 were very different worlds, and Ivalice threw us for some loops as well. This story draws from all of them, but still feels mostly natural.

    This a minor detail, but I liked the mysterious, low-tech crystals of the Seers. There is a lot of sci-fi in our fantasy, right now. Ever since the moon fell, there's been spaceships, guns, computers, and alien robots. And just as we're getting away from the Allagans, the Garleans are catching up! By the time the Empire falls, the Ragnaroks that were off-planet for the Fourth Umbral Calamity will be back.

    I am very curious about these potential changes, though:
    Echo Prophecy
    If the Echo lets us hear the whispers of the soul, how does it help us see through time? How can we see through time now that time can change...?

    Non-Garlean Legatus
    This one was shocking! I thought perhaps Gabranth was pureblood but not of the Garlean nation, but that feels unlikely. But isn't he in violation of Imperial law!? Non-purebloods can only raise to the rank of sas, no? How do the Optimates feel about a non-pureblood van?
    In terms of real-world connections, am I picking up some Persian vibes? The geographical names, the historical themes, even the concept of fancy religious writings on swords! Perhaps this is where that real-world inspiration went now that Thavnair feels closer to India than the Middle East.

    And finally... Gerolt and Rowena's love story making a comeback is as guilty of a pleasure for me as it would be for SE to admit Y'shtola and Thancred used to date. SE deciding they used to be married made her 1.0 dialogue sound like her intention has always been to keep him on a short leash until he can free himself of his demons and reclaim his self worth...which he can't because he's still in love with her, but won't focus on that because he's caught up on how irritated he is to be on her leash at all. She held onto a completely worthless promissory note for how long just to pretend it was a trifling matter to give it to you - someone who needed a smith to craft some of the greatest weapons the world has ever known? I see you, lady. Validating that headcanon is pure dopamine, lol.
    (18)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 04-18-2020 at 09:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
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    Feb 2017
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    3,386
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 80
    Wasn't anything too intriguing in this initial set of quests to me, honestly.

    The revelation that Cid's father had been tempered mostly served to remove some of his guilt over what had happened at Bozja Citadel and ease tensions with the resistance members.

    I can't help but wonder how much of Cid's cognitive Varis was fact vs. fiction in terms of how he fought. It was a convenient way to let us go up against him post-mortem, in any case (Though the Weapons had potentially left that avenue open already).

    I don't ever recall Mikoto mentioning she had the Echo back during the Ivalice events, either. Being able to get glimpses of the future seems a lot more useful then being able to see the past...though like our Echo it seems to happen too randomly to be terribly advantageous (I'm still curious as to whether or not there's a lore reason for why the Ascians never seem to trigger Echo visions).

    It seems like they're building up to having the warzone around Bozja as the field zone we'll be progressing our relics in, considering that they name-dropped a bunch of the IVth Legion commanders as well where they're likely going to be holed up on the battlefield.
    (2)
    Last edited by KageTokage; 04-07-2020 at 11:09 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    RyuDragnier's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Gridania
    Posts
    1,737
    Character
    Hayk Farsight
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    There was something that irked me, and something that made me squee.

    We're still doing the whole everything happening in a single year right now? We all know it has been much longer than a year in story, but they still seem to push this forward. I hate it, I absolutely hate it. Get a timeline already Yoshi-P!

    Gabranth mentioned "The Lady of Blades". Are...are we getting Gunnhildr as a primal battle!?
    (3)
    Last edited by RyuDragnier; 04-07-2020 at 11:44 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Fenral's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    W'fharl Tia
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 80
    While I appreciated the instance itself,
    the "Midas was tempered" reveal is something that Gaius already told Cid way back in 2.0. Or is the reveal here supposed to be that he was tempered as early as the Bozja incident, not just during the Meteor Project? It wasn't hard to extrapolate from the information we already had, at any rate.

    Still, I suppose it's a good refresher for the people who don't run Praetorium in its unskippable glory at least once a week for tomes. And it was such a good instance, regardless.
    (2)
    Last edited by Fenral; 04-08-2020 at 01:55 AM.
    あっきれた。

  5. #5
    Player
    Gula's Avatar
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    Mar 2019
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    1,775
    Character
    Gula Jelibi
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    I demand a "That's so Raven" reference be it a quest title or personal one.

    Koji please.

    Added note, Chain of Memories. It's even got Square's logo on it come on.
    (8)
    Last edited by Gula; 04-08-2020 at 01:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    JeanneOrnitier's Avatar
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    May 2017
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    248
    Character
    Shion Bellveil
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    I'm only just barely starting but I love these little conversations with Marsak and Misija.

    Basch was Noah's father instead of brother. Like FF12 Noah, Basch bent the knee to the empire after his homeland Landis was conquered and somehow became a Legatus despite being a non-Garlean. He led the Bozja invasion. When he grew sick during the invasion of Dalmasca, Gabranth took over, and 2 years later when Basch died Gabranth became Legatus.

    The IVth Legion is loyal to Noah over the Empire, is comprised mostly of non-Garleans, and they prefer not to use magitek. Varis was suspicious of them and so would keep them at arm's length by shoveling them off to remote provinces. I noticed Marsak said he'd been doing this for a few years, which makes me think, does that mean we've left the Simpsons time bubble? Since we saw Varis become emperor in ARR.

    Castrum Latus Litore was originally known as Alamut, which is a reference to the real world location right down to how Marsak describes it being surrounded by steep cliffs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamut_Castle

    With Mikoto and a world comprised of memories, I'm loving this FF9 reference. My favorite FF game. I also really like Bozja's architecture and the general look of this duty in general.

    I don't care if it wasn't real, the whole squad against the Emperor was hype as hell.
    (8)
    Last edited by JeanneOrnitier; 04-08-2020 at 03:08 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Remedi's Avatar
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    Feb 2014
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    2,537
    Character
    Remedi Maxwell
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    PLACEHOLDER MESSAGE
    However, I worry about some of these deep retcons: non-pureblood Legatus?
    Edits in Periodical Progress
    While I do agree that is a bit jarring, I would also say that is just so like something Emet-Selch would do if he saw someone with potential (plus your theory might actually be right)
    (8)

  8. #8
    Player
    JeanneOrnitier's Avatar
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    May 2017
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    Character
    Shion Bellveil
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    Mateus
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    Red Mage Lv 80
    It is jarring but I'm confident we'll see an answer as the storyline unfolds, that's not something they would just leave as a big question mark.
    It's worth noting that in FF12 Gabranth (and Basch, since Basch was his brother there) were half-Archadian on their mother's side. So maybe 14's Gabranth is half-Garlean.
    (3)
    Last edited by JeanneOrnitier; 04-08-2020 at 03:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Berteaux_Braumegain's Avatar
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    Sep 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
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    931
    Character
    Berteaux Braumegain
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenral View Post
    While I appreciated the instance itself,
    the "Midas was tempered" reveal is something that Gaius already told Cid way back in 2.0. Or is the reveal here supposed to be that he was tempered as early as the Bozja incident, not just during the Meteor Project? It wasn't hard to extrapolate from the information we already had, at any rate.

    Still, I suppose it's a good refresher for the people who don't run Praetorium in its unskippable glory at least once a week for tomes. And it was such a good instance, regardless.
    Agreed on all of these points. Though, that specific reveal went by pretty easily and it seemed more like
    Cid was still coping with being shot by his father more than anything.


    Also, it seems like
    Gabby wants to summon Asura from Final Fantasy IV. Too bad for him she'll only cast Protect and Curaga.
    (6)

  10. #10
    Player
    JeanneOrnitier's Avatar
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    May 2017
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    Character
    Shion Bellveil
    World
    Mateus
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    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain View Post
    Also, it seems like
    Gabby wants to summon Asura from Final Fantasy IV. Too bad for him she'll only cast Protect and Curaga.
    Ohh, maybe that's why they're the IVth Legion.
    (0)

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