Remove Reduction of Loot for others in Savage.

[Jamein]

I already mentioned this a different thread on this subject, but the system is intentionally designed to slow down and control the rate at which players earn gear. Without lockouts, People could get a full set of Edenchoir Gear in a theoretical day. and then what? They log out, some potentially staying logged out until the next content is released. Not exactly something that a company that wants you to stay subbed so you keep giving them money wants. Without making things insane grinds, there is no way the FF14 team can create content faster than the playerbase can consume it, it's just a simple fact of reality. So this MMO and many others use grinds or weekly/daily lockouts to extend longevity, since it puts more control on the developer's side of things.

I didn't ask to reduce loot lockouts for the individual player. I'm fine with them keeping this.

In the current system, for every 8 players that clear savage, no more than 2 chests are being given out. In a system where there's a weekly lockout but no penalty for helping, let's see how a team could abuse and exploit it to its limit:
7 players get on alts, 1 gets on main. they clear, the 1 main gets both chests.
that 1 main switches to an alt, one of the other alts switches to main, clear again. that main gets 2 chests.
repeat until you've literally octuple'd the amount of chests being given out in a week. Literally 8x as many chests than the developers tuned for. and given the natural overarching response of players to seek the path of optimization, it would quickly become very popular.

I see this point and I still maintain the pro's outweigh the con's because lets look at the situation required for this.

8 players (a static) easily done thats fine
All of them with Alts levelled and geared for savage, still easily doable but not everyone has the time for this only the people who put a lot of hours in want to gear out two chars to clear savage twice.

Now lets look at the reasoning for this.
You are saying they are going to clear each savage raid, 8 times a week to funnel gear for content they already have on farm for something where there is zero competitive market.

I absolutely agree it could be abused, just like people can sell clear runs, but my point is given the above requirements for doing that, and the reasons/benefits for doing it its going to impact far less people than having the restrictions in does.

Will people abuse it? Of course some will, but I would be willing to bet it would be a small minority, so again do we punish 95% of the playerbase for what the 5% are going to do?

[Jamein]

Yes. anytime you open a system to abuse people can and will abuse the heck out of it. it's the bad apples that ruin the whole bunch. it's why we can't have nice things. it's all the other sayings that are there for situations like this. you cannot let people game the system because they will do so ad nauseum.

And I concede that fact that SOME will abuse it (as stated in a post above) however their abuse of the system has ZERO impact on the rest of the playerbase, a small minority of players being geared quicker does not screw the game over for the rest of the players, so why punish the rest of the players for something like this.

Again (and yes this is just my opinion) the pro's far outwiegh the cons.

[MariaArvana]

so again do we punish 95% of the playerbase for what the 5% are going to do?

To Square, yes. Square is a company first and foremost. Their systems are made on cold, heartless math, statistics and theoretical simulations that they project will keep people subbed longer without being too harsh. They want to keep gear distribution at 2 chests/8 players, and thus have to squash out any possibility of loopholes, as there's just as many players that will abuse them.

(See: any of the previous exploits/loopholes/etc that have been in-game before. Adding queue penalties because some sour apples kept withdrawing to fish for in-prog queues or leaving if they don't get the dungeon they want with zero repercussions, adding in forced log-offs each day during the opening of Stormblood due to people abusing systems to avoid the auto-kick, job-switching to super level BLU solo in less than an hour, literally changing the terrain of boss rooms and forever making boss arenas flat due to people LOS & height abusing bosses (Most notably Twintania), etc.)

Welcome to game development, where impressing your boss with your financials is pretty integral to secure yourself a nice budget for your ongoing game in the future.

[Vaer]

Will people abuse it? Of course some will, but I would be willing to bet it would be a small minority, so again do we punish 95% of the playerbase for what the 5% are going to do?

Remember why we lost in combat markers, feast chat and all the other stuff that they changed to prevent "abuse/exploits". These changes affect everyone instead of the small percentage of people that were "abusing" it. I mean you could probably lump the dreaded parser in that category, too. Can't have them because some people will abuse it to be mean. So really if given the choice I think they'll go with punishing everyone as it is easier to enforce.

Pretty much the reason it is the way it is is because they have a financial incentive to keep it this way. They are strangling the gear on purpose so their catch up patch actually covers as many people as possible.

I think it would be funny to see people make PFs with "weekly cleared people only" and the leader being the only person without loot so they get all the gear though.

[Kresus]

so are we saying we punish the majority for the minority that would abuse the system?

I mean, they already did that when they removed the ability to place waymarks midfight.

And the fact that they're never adding in a clientside DPS meter is arguably yet another nail in that particular arguement.

This is SE. I don't know WHY they've been so remarkably out of touch with FFXIV, but it's frustrating, and confusing both at the same time.

But there ain't any other decent MMO available on the markets atm, so I guess all we can really do is grin and bear it.

[Baalfrog]

Running splits to basically fuel the gear to certain people is currently already doable, BUT the reason not many people do this is because you need 2, 3, 4 or however many separate characters depending on how many sets of gear you want to get. If they remove this restriction, you can be damn sure people will start doing it since you need only 2 guys and you can do it over and over and over. So then it would become a problem and then it would be fixed like feast chat or something else like SE usually does.

And yea, all that talk about making the content last longer and such is definetly the reason why it is like it is.

Also to everyone advocating for personal loot system? There is 0 to gain from it, and only to lose. How it would work if it was made similar to what we got now, with similar gear pacing would be like this. You kill the boss. There are 8 people in the raid, 2 coffers worth of loot is distributed randomly to people in the group. 1/8 to get a single piece. Thats 12.5%. Now lets compare that to a pug 2 chest run. Boss is killed, 2 chests worth of items is dropped, and you roll for the things you want. Assuming everyone rolls need its 1/8. So 12.5% per item again. So in summary, personal loot is oddwise the same, but you lose the control you have. Don't want an item? You can't pass or greed with personal loot. You could end up with a bunch of duplicates and not get the one you want. So I've got 2 things to say, personal loot, if implemented would follow the same math as we currently have, but you lose the last slivers of control you have. And secondly, and far more importantly, if you want steady loot join a static! If you can't find one, make one. Don't screw everyone over because you choose to live in the pug world. Living in pug world means you aren't quaranteed steady loot or steady clears etc. It is your choice to do it. Don't make it worse for everyone else because you chose to do that instead.

[thegreatonemal]

To Square, yes. Square is a company first and foremost. Their systems are made on cold, heartless math, statistics and theoretical simulations that they project will keep people subbed longer without being too harsh. They want to keep gear distribution at 2 chests/8 players, and thus have to squash out any possibility of loopholes, as there's just as many players that will abuse them.

(See: any of the previous exploits/loopholes/etc that have been in-game before. Adding queue penalties because some sour apples kept withdrawing to fish for in-prog queues or leaving if they don't get the dungeon they want with zero repercussions, adding in forced log-offs each day during the opening of Stormblood due to people abusing systems to avoid the auto-kick, job-switching to super level BLU solo in less than an hour, literally changing the terrain of boss rooms and forever making boss arenas flat due to people LOS & height abusing bosses (Most notably Twintania), etc.)

Welcome to game development, where impressing your boss with your financials is pretty integral to secure yourself a nice budget for your ongoing game in the future.

You do know this is the same game that director encourages people to unsub if they get done everything they want to do right. You all have a warped view of how money in a company works.
Our subs do not keep this game running.

[Xatsh]

You do know this is the same game that director encourages people to unsub if they get done everything they want to do right. You all have a warped view of how money in a company works.
Our subs do not keep this game running.

Our subs 100% do, trust me everyone unsubs, the game will shut down. It makes them money, alot of money, so development continues. If it stops making them alot of money it gets put on maintenance mode. They are a company if a project is not profitable anymore and has no chance of being profitable it will be shuttered and resources will be invested elsewhere. Even with the FFXIV 1.0 failure.. it was only redone to protect the IP from permanent damage. 3.0+ happened because it the remake was successful and made them money. $$$ is everything in a corporation. We are lucky SE was looking longterm at the franchise and not just ffxiv as a game or this would been shutdown before 2.0 ever launched.

As for Yoshida... his comments on unsubing if you run out of content and wait to a new expansion/patch is one of the underlying problems with this game and why there are such large fluxes in playerbase. A healthy mmo should never run out of content for anyone, this is a resent problem in mmos and due to casual focus with long development time. MMOs have to have longterm content to keep the playerbase engaged for the long haul, ffxiv has none.

[Seraphor]

The loot lock exists for a very good reason.
But, I'd be for it getting unlocked sooner than it currently is.
The 7 weeks it takes normal players to get the weapon tomestones seems about right.

[DrWho2010]

As for Yoshida... his comments on unsubing if you run out of content and wait to a new expansion/patch is one of the underlying problems with this game and why there are such large fluxes in playerbase. A healthy mmo should never run out of content for anyone, this is a resent problem in mmos and due to casual focus with long development time. MMOs have to have longterm content to keep the playerbase engaged for the long haul, ffxiv has none.

Or he realizes that we have many other demands on our time these days like family, friends, other games, other pursuits, netflix, movies, tabletop games, etc. etc. He knows that we shouldn't be putting all our time into this game 24/7. he makes statements like that because he wants people to be able to jump in and out of the game at will and not miss anything.