Is Summoner currently fun to play?

[Rika007]

I actually had a whole long answer typed out on why I love Summoner after doing a whole tier of raiding on it this expansion since the rework and then as I was going over a cons of it I came to the realization... I actually DONT think Summoner is fun. I think it is incredibly rewarding to play at a high level and from that I get a lot of enjoyment out of it when I preform well. I very much loved Heavensward Summoner and found it to be fun in all ways. I felt the same about post rework Summoner in Stormblood. I detested Summoner in it's form before the most recent rework for Shadowbringers, but certain changes removed several frustrations I had with the class and the buffs made it so that the work you did made the effort you put in feel worth it.

But I don't get the same enjoyment of it that I did before, where I would just jump on it for just the funnies in expert and 24 man because I just WANTED to play the class, which is what I do now with Black Mage and Samurai. I raid on it because I still do like the aesthetics of the class (Phoenix for the win), I'm displeased with my old main job's changes in ShB (Bard), and the class I feel does reward me for the effort it asks for and hold a very well rounded role on any good raid static. But that doesn't = fun. The rotation still to me feels incredibly disjointed unlike 3.x and 4.x Summoner which felt like an absolute dream. It still has numerous issues with Pet AI that while I can compensate for, just makes me wish they would do away with Egi's entirely and turn to a rotation that features the Demi summons and makes them the primary feature of the job. It still feels incredibly clunky where I'm having to do things that go against my normal DPS mindset to make sure I'm getting out the most amount of Wyrmwaves and Scarlet Flames. It still is absolutely dumb that Bahamut/Phoenix still FOLLOWS ME AROUND LIKE A DAMN LOST PUPPY WHEN IT SHOULD BE EASY TO JUST MAKE IT SIT FREAKING STILL WHILE I MOVE!!!

This is of course all in the eye of the beholder. I know some people who absolutely love the job and feel it's never been better than now. But for me the constant annoyances of the class still put it in a place where I can't say I find it fun. But in it's favor none of those annoyances I find game breaking. It's not like MCH where ping makes me hate my life and not want to play it. It's not like Bard where I feel like I'm playing flight of the bumble bee and I'm getting nothing for it while other jobs sing ABC's and do more. It's not like Monk where I feel the job is conceptually just BROKEN at it's core. It just has more to do going into the next expansion to continue to clean up the mess that the initial rework caused.

[Mhaeric]

I enjoy Summoner. The only thing I don't like about it is how floaty it feels, for lack of a better term. This has always been the case with it, however, and is due to the multiple sources of damage that just sort of accrue over time unlike with RDM and especially BLM which feel much more visceral and immediate. At the end of a fight or a trash pull I never have a sense of how much damage I did as a Summoner unless I look at a parse and it's usually higher than I expected based on what it felt like, whereas with BLM and RDM I definitely feel like I'm doing the damage and I'm never surprised by their parse numbers if I look at them.

As for actual gameplay, the rotation is it's best place right now where the full rotation only takes 2 mins instead of the 3 of StormBlood and we can now effectively start it 40s into it since we can open with Trance. Moving pet skills to the GCD iin the last patch was a good change and makes it feel less Ruin spammy. The only thing I would really want right now would be immobile dem-summons or at least ones that can move and attack at the same time. Aetherflow is just kind of there now too, but I prefer its current state to before where it gated your rotation.

[Apolline]

I am enjoying smn currently, but don't have much more to add that others haven't already mentioned. Its not the best it could be, but I see ideas being fleshed out for it and also hope they just go with demi rotations in the future. Though, I swill wish they would make our version of physik useful in the future, for example like adding an esuna effect (my reasoning for that is if we start off being debuffing arcanists with poisons and miasma, you'd think lore wise we would also learn to remove those debuffs) but thats just a minor wish so that all of our skills have a use, even if it is niche.

[dinnertime]

I think it's quite risky to give Summoner a better Physick (with an added Esuna effect) or any more support abilities because Summoner right now is pretty good at a lot of things compared to other DPS. It also has the risk of being too similar with Red Mage. They both already have a Raise and a party buff, only thing unique about both is one has a reliable direct heal, the other has better damage.

Personally, Summoner doesn't need any more support abilities when all of that can be Red Mage's to justify their standing on the DPS totem pole.

[Nemekh]

It's very easy to try and start justifying everything with lore based on what we feel is in flavour but this doesn't lead to what's necessarily innovative nor balanced. We really do not need Physick bolstered.

[Apolline]

It was more like a pipe dream, definitely don't think its needed or will happen. Sorry if I wasn't clear

[Sylvain]

Quite fun tbh
My only dislike is the ruin2 spam during Bahamut. I hope we'll get a trait that enhance ruin2 during that window. (Purely visual dislike)

I also wish we had a reason to rotate our ego. Perhaps they'll entirely remove them and put them back as temporary demi in 6.0 ( hopefully with slight gameplay variation between each)

[Zeyphr_Darkshadow]

My biggest complain though is how disjointed it feels. You have five main categories of DPS tools: Ruin + Ruin II/IV Weaving, DoT Management, Aetherflow Actions (ED/ES + Fester/Painflare), Egi Assaults, and your Trance/Summoning Rotation. Most of these feel very disconnected, like your Aetherflow actions used to be a central component of the Summoner's kit, but now that it has nothing to do with the summoning rotation, it just feels like extra busy work that has nothing to do with the rest of our tools anymore, except DoTs and Fester. The Egi Assaults also feel like they're just kinda there, as well.

I want to see more cohesion within the kit so it's less all over the place and more focused. Not everything needs to all flow together in one giant machine. The DoTs and Tri-Disaster, for example, are fine as they are. I think it may be time to drop Aetherflow altogether since it's basically a vestigial limb at this point. I'd also be kinda into the idea of Egi Assaults replacing Ruin spells while your pet is summoned.

Also, could we maybe get some attacks from other primals? Like I'm not expecting us to summon egis or demis of primals like Ravana, Bismarck, or others, but what about oGCD attacks where we briefly summon those Primals in partial form for their signature attacks before they disappear? We could even have Aetherpact Change to Lakshmi's Alluring Embrace. Same effect, but more themed around actual summoning.

Again, I definitely have less experience with Summoner now more than ever, so my opinions aren't as useful as someone who's been maining it.

I completely agree with everything you just said. The job feels alot more quantity over quality, and you are spot on when you said that certain mechanics feel "tacked on" because... why? SMN is the job I always have the most in depth conversations about with friends, and how it could be changed and improved but your ideas are actually the best i've heard so far.