Dungeons need some spice!

[Vyrerus]

Dungeons need to be more interesting, end of the story. No point in wasting all the resources in making the nice graphics in them and just turn them into 20min mob AoE burn fests.

Most "content creators" are just elitist douches who all they care (obsessed) about is endgame crap and wouldn't know good game design if it slapped them in the face.

For a lot of the playerbase they are more like 30 minute trudge fests where the players themselves, "Just want to take it easy." Since Trusts came out, a lot of people don't even bother to queue with other players for dungeon runs. They cite, "Too much animosity, too many players being dicks, too many players trying too hard."

There's no point in designing intricate, well tuned dungeons when it'll just be pearls before swine. They already reduced the resources they spend making dungeons, since we get 1/3rd the amount of dungeons that we used to get, at a lower frequency, with little/no mechanics.

It's less that they don't care about designing fights before the endgame, and more that they aren't allowed to bar out accessibility to people who don't want difficulty in any form.

[Jirah]

I agree to some extent. In the end what’s the point if it’s just Data fodder in the game. Even in the patch 5.2 trailer they barley showed the dungeon off which reflects how little they car to do anything interesting with

[Jirah]

They tried - people said no they don't want it.

The issue with this agreement, is that very shallow cherry picking “this one time, a few people didn’t want hard dungeons”

It’s 5 years later and dungeons are so basic I’ve played Guildheists more complex than it...which the whole point was to teach you diverse mechanics you’ll never use in dungeons

[Jirah]

Every time they introduce anything even remotely difficult the forum explodes with people calling for a nerf. Often when the instance isnt even actually difficult too. From the last couple years i remember people raging about Shinryu(end of 4.0, not the extreme), every solo Zenos instance, Tsuko normal, the "Little Sun" instance with Y'shtola(both halves), the estinien solo instance, the alphy solo instance, the final boss in the burn, final steps of faith, titania normal, the solo thancred instance(both for length and difficulty), both ranjit fights, gimlit dark(mostly the last boss), every alliance raid since void ark, the solo instance with lakshmi, the solo instance with tataru and soroban... and im sure im forgetting a few. And those are mostly(RIP TG Cid) fights that never got nerfed. Amdapor, steps of faith, and i think pharos? all actually were made easier to appease the whiners.

So link? Or ...are we supposed to take your word for it. That’s also in the past we’ve had 3 expansions 30+ trials, 70+ dungeons are we to expect the game flat line forever? A few mechs here and there between bosses wouldn’t shut down the game. I don’t understand the worst case scenario. You will not please everyone and givin how small the roulette will be this expansion, playing dungeons with no thought over and over won’t make it better

[Jirah]

Even the dungeons you mentioned, while good, aren't as interesting as they were back in 1.0.
They were challenging. They had multiple exits, optional bosses, speedrun rewards, gear worth bringing to endgame, you name it!

Dungeons have turned into less and less of a priority. With hunt trains, and various other methods of gaining tomestones you don't need to grind them out like we used to. On top of they we've gone from 3 dungeons a patch to maybe 1.
Honestly, nows a good a time than ever to make them more challenging content again. Sure they'd take up more time, and they probably won't reward us like they used to, but at least they could be engaging.

I realize it'll probably never happen. Cookie cutter dungeons are what we've had for years now and that probably won't change. All we can do is hope for a Baldesion Arsenal 2, it's the closest thing we've had.

I’m down for Savage dungeons, careful planing, short and powerful bosses, meaningful loot, maybe do somthing like L4D where every encounter is randomizes for replay-ability it’s almost like a raid! I dream of that day maybe when FF14 gets a “Rapsodys Final” like ff11 did and they need to really think of how to keep subs happy, YoshiP and his team have the brains to do it but maybe their priories need to be realigned and maybe take a risk

They did for 2.0 after all

[DrWho2010]

except the way i see it is that people will see that a mythic + system is there and they'll step into it when they're clearly not supposed to be there (just like every ex/savage piece of content) and the wave of complaints will start to flood in. then since it's just dungeons people will demand that either it get nerfed or given special consideration, when the devs have clearly said they're more interested in creating new and different types of gameplay experiences rather than just retooling old things. I mean look at HoH. there's a reason we don't have yet another iteration of this in 5.x (and we're not getting one either). it's because while it it was a slap of paint on the PotD system it got old real fast. putting their resources into Baldesion Arsenal was much better for Stormblood.

And then there's the problem of rewards for a mythic plus system. Every time this topic comes up i never see a compelling reason to do so other than just "the challenge of it". every suggestion i've seen from people for a reward for doing mythic+ hasn't ever been something that would make me say, "hmm I would like something like that to be a reward".

[Shurrikhan]

except the way i see it is that people will see that a mythic + system is there and they'll step into it when they're clearly not supposed to be there (just like every ex/savage piece of content)...

Isn't part of the beauty of a Mythic + system largely that it can be easily configured not to permit access to a given difficulty level until you have finished the level immediately before it? Beyond that, the situation is identical to that of Savage.

For the very first Savage dungeon, your only safeties are the completion of Normal mode and a higher ilvl requirement. For each thereafter, it's completion of the difficult content immediately before it. In Savage, that means E5, 6, and 7 for access to 8, for instance; in "Mythic+" that means Savage, +1, +2, and +3 for access to +4.

We're free to add further restrictions, such as SSS output, ilvl, or prior level completions, beyond WoW's incredibly loose requirements (largely for the option to carry friends, especially since their levels scale up separately for each week, always starting from 0 and thus forcing the strongest players to briefly mix with the weaker participants).

[QooEr]

And then there's the problem of rewards for a mythic plus system. Every time this topic comes up i never see a compelling reason to do so other than just "the challenge of it". every suggestion i've seen from people for a reward for doing mythic+ hasn't ever been something that would make me say, "hmm I would like something like that to be a reward".

Savage dungeons, if added later into a patch cycle, could either drop savage ilv gear or even not at all. If a savage dungeon just dropped a title or a mount I would do it. They could also drop shiny gear like ultimates do for replayability

A very common complaint is that there's nothing to use your bis on; there's practically no purpose to getting it. Only when ultimates were added did bis have some significance, but even then there's not ultimates every raid cycle. Savage dungeons would give raiders something to do while the next patch comes around


Your "people will show up unprepared and cry about it" argument makes no sense. Simply slap the word (savage) or something similar to it's name and that will make people think it's more than just a regular casual dungeon. If you're that worried raise the min ilv

[Jirah]

I close this off with “what do they possibly have to lose for making dungeons more complex” complaints? Their will always be complaints look at the games current state. It’s not a dark age of FF14 it’s not it’s hayday but complaints are always present