The real issue in Mmos is not balance

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

So Let me say this and this is the true cold truth... balance is almost never a problem on games that use "mmo tags"
First off, people will play whatever they enjoy you don't have to nerf or god mode the thing to get people to not play or to play the job.
Second: the reason Balance isn't the issue is because the abilities are not the problem with the game (yes, you might say this or that oh its not strong enough or its 2 strong) that isn't the problem.
Third: The real problem is how bosses and monsters are made... they are a 1-2 on normal monsters Ability set revolved around hp%

Now what should be done to solve the real meat of the problems with how things are.
First: stop crying that it's a balance issue it's not
Second: realization to not make things really so dumb a monkey could do them.
Finally: Invest in an AI that doesn't focus on the machicas like DPS Check or Healer check or tank buster, but an AI that focus on destroying the party.
Next:Bosses should be made to kill the party not to be a challenge, but the boss should have an AI program that is extremely Op that will flat out kill people.
What does this mean?
Simple: some fights should be made to target the heavy hitters over the tank
Put yourself the maker in the bosses shoes not the players (putting yourself in the players shoe on the fight causes so many failures and lameness and you should feel ashamed of doing it that way) What happens when you put yourself as a player you go well Cool music check, Cool images check, cool art check, cool boss look check, Intresting Mach looks check. While the boss themself is basicly that one idoit in class doing everything they been told without thinking for themself.
What needs to be done:
1st remove equipment durability (this is a must so people don't cry oh, I died, I gotta repair) (this leads to fights being dumbed down because of the players themselves) 2nd: Bosses with Target commands that will go outside of the tanks to attack the heavy healer or heavy DPs user and if they aren't protecting or handled in a quick taste, the guy/girl dies and will need a race (this right here solves 2 birds with one stone) 3rd: Add an ability to some of the fights called dispell or some incurable slow/stop.
4th: bosses with lock out abilities or Kill for AP 5mins of the
5th Bosses that uses abilities at random and throw in some secret coding of abilities, it has without being a magical like give Ultima the ability to cast Ultima randomly without a cast timer on the group and make it a 1%-5% to happen 6th: bosses need to have a 1-5 roll on them so every fight is different on the boss, maybe effort will have fired on one fight, but on the other has flare basically give the fights a random gen so its not about reading or watching someone else information and teach people to play with their own skill
7th: Fight counters: so basically give fights abilities such as zombie : So for healers if your team member has zombie on them and you heal them they die, mags if the thing has firewall don't use fire or it will heal.

The basics: it's not that things are not powerful or they are 2 powerful its the fact the game has no AI to counter anything you do and there's not a damn thing your nerds or removal can do about it, something will always be"powerful" and something always will be "weak" so use a damn AI that is worth something.

[Krotoan]

.. That sounds not fun for me and many people I know.

I don't want a boss pulling some "hidden" team wiping mechanic out of nowhere. AI's can nearly always "outplay" characters easily. Just Calculate exactly when something will do the most damage or cause the most havoc and do that. Random paralyzes that freeze you JUST when you don't want them to. The reason this isn't in the game is it would absolutely destroy the fun for likely thousands of players.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

.. That sounds not fun for me and many people I know.

I don't want a boss pulling some "hidden" team wiping mechanic out of nowhere. AI's can nearly always "outplay" characters easily. Just Calculate exactly when something will do the most damage or cause the most havoc and do that. Random paralyzes that freeze you JUST when you don't want them to. The reason this isn't in the game is it would absolutely destroy the fun for likely thousands of players.

I never said it had to be team wiping but cause serious damage to the team it needs to be done on and that is false Any good player can out play a good Ai you just have use your brain for a change.

Which is more common sense than anything if you were the boss taking heavy flares or drills would you really keep punching the guy thats tickling you with its toothpick sword and shield? No you would go slap that dps into another realm just like you wouldn't sit there while the healer is like lalala dancing in the rain I'll heal you 2 full hp and the tank will never die unless the tank is retarded alalala (like really the fights should be all like a game of chess)

[Krotoan]

I never said it had to be team wiping but cause serious damage to the team it needs to be done on and that is false Any good player can out play a good Ai you just have use your brain for a change

I am 100% sure that an AI programmed and able to use any skill at any time will wipe your party in seconds.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

I am 100% sure that an AI programmed and able to use any skill at any time will wipe your party in seconds.

of course it wouldn't be any but it should be given like 25 single target moves it can cast at random times on any member of it at pure random times and moments like for example shiva casting blizzage on the healer or casting Stop on the highest dps an AI programmed to take out the the highest threat that the bosses Ai tells her is the highest threat during that 1 battle or simpley casting Death on the highest dps that cant be cured and just kills them forcing the healer to waste more mp to rez them with something like if not rezed after 3mins of kill by the ability it will target someone at random and move to them

[Krotoan]

of course it wouldn't be any but it should be given like 25 single target moves it can cast at random times on any member of it at pure random times and moments like for example shiva casting blizzage on the healer or casting Stop on the highest dps an AI programmed to take out the the highest threat that the bosses Ai tells her is the highest threat during that 1 battle

There are games out there to challenge your twitch and reaction skills at their highest levels. I would be comfortable guessing that most of the audience for FFXIV is not here for that. Wildstar tried to have all "hardcore" content.. it failed.

[Adeacia]

.. That sounds not fun for me and many people I know.

I don't want a boss pulling some "hidden" team wiping mechanic out of nowhere. AI's can nearly always "outplay" characters easily. Just Calculate exactly when something will do the most damage or cause the most havoc and do that. Random paralyzes that freeze you JUST when you don't want them to. The reason this isn't in the game is it would absolutely destroy the fun for likely thousands of players.

So you are saying its ok for players to try to optimize everything as much as possible, but when the AI does it, its bad?

[Krotoan]

So you are saying its ok for players to try to optimize everything as much as possible, but when the AI does it, its bad?

I'm saying if they did it to the AI many many players wouldn't enjoy this game anymore. Depending on your personal wants, it could be fun for you, but since there is a relatively large population in this game who doesn't live for "optimal" gameplay, it'd likely be received badly.

[Adeacia]

I'm saying if they did it to the AI many many players wouldn't enjoy this game anymore. Depending on your personal wants, it could be fun for you, but since there is a relatively large population in this game who doesn't live for "optimal" gameplay, it'd likely be received badly.

I've joked before that the bosses don't actually try to kill us players. If they were actually trying we'd probably never win a fight, since they would combine mechs in such a way that it would be impossible to survive.

Another thought: Imagine Lakshmi. At the start of the fight she has a shield up and there are 2 enemies. You kill the enemies and she drops the shield to attack, what if she didn't do that? She just keeps the shield up the entire time, being unable to take damage and just lets the instance timer run out while taunting your inability to do anything about it. All she has to do to win, is not lose.

If the bosses aren't stupid, we wouldn't even have a game. I agree with you.

[Barraind]

Perfect balance is not a problem, but relative balance is.


People will play games for years if the class/archetype/playstyle they prefer isnt the best at one particular role, but is capable of doing a job they want it to be able to do and remain competitive enough to not be wholly replaced or obsoleted.

People will not continue to do that if the way they like playing and the way they want to play IS wholly replaceable or obsoleted.