Mogstation taking another step to the darkside

[MOZZYSTAR]

One of my friends pointed out something important: we're basically getting less content that comes with our sub for the same price. Not only are they really pushing adding more stuff to the cash shop (which basically means less stuff for us), but we're now getting one less dungeon per patch (for DoL/H stuff but that really shouldn't affect what we're getting), the collectors' edition of expansions don't come with as many perks/freebies as they did with (say) ARR, they didn't give us a healing class as we really needed one, Hrothgar & Viera are a total hot mess and despite making new gear (e.g. helmets and hair) they're not making them suitable for either race and they're gender locked, they're prioritising making shit for cash shop instead of working on instead of prioritising things that both need to be addressed (e.g. talking to the playerbase so we know what's going on with things like the healing classes, the races) and fixed.

We already pay approximately $180 USD a year (+60 or more every two years) assuming we sub every month and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of players. Stop milking us like a massive barn of cash cows. This isn't a F2P game, so much items should not be locked behind a cash shop like a F2P game and the amount of content we get "for free" should not be dwindling. NEWSFLASH, IT'S NOT FREE. WE PAY EVERY MONTH. Patches come out every 3-4 months. Accumulatively, we pay approximately $45-$60 every patch release ($15*3=$45, $15*4=$60) for the new content they give us; that's the price of a whole new game. We don't usually get enough content to be worth the same price of an entirely new game. Therefore, the items and content we receive should not be dwindling as it is. Items should not be locked behind a cashshop (at least not as many as there currently are and will eventually grow to be.). There is a level of expectation of what a subbed MMO should provide with its content for paying customers VS a F2P game.

If SE wants to focus more on cash shop, make the game F2P. If not, then stop prioritising cash shop items that can't otherwise be obtained within the game. (But better yet, stop wasting resources by making more stuff for Mogstation and start working on things that need fixing, please.)

Sorry for being an ass, but I'm still pretty burnt on all the crap that's happened with Shadowbringers. Story aside (and the new DoH/L stuff is cool), it was easily the worst expansion release they've had so far in terms of classes and races and so on. I would take Raubahn EX over this fiasco. It just feels disrespectful. SE feels like they are being disrespected (and they are, to be fair), but they're also disrespecting us - their consumers. Without them, the game wouldn't exist. But without us, they wouldn't even have the funds to continue this game. We're codependent on each other, so we should be more respectful towards each other. As far as I'm concerned, they're acting like they're very entitled to our money and they're not. We choose to fund them. For our funding, they provide us with the game. It's like a patreon thing. One does not subscribe to his/her/their favourite youtuber or artist expecting to not benefit from it. One expects to benefit and their money be compensated in some way. If one is no longer benefiting, one unsubscribes. It's that simple. If a creator makes their memberbase unhappy, well... There goes a possible paycheck. What I'm trying to say is... It's good and fair to get paid for (it is their job), but they're not entitled to it as they've been acting and I'm finding this money grubbing attitude to be very tasteless and disrespectful.


Edit/PS: I don't blame the dev team. I blame their director/producer and their company itself because this largely seems like bad management/directing to me.

[linay]

I'm not too familar with WoW's Cash Shop but one complaint I have heard from WoW players as criticism against FFXIV is the size of this game's Cash Shop and how greedy seem to be according to them compared to WoW.

I wouldn't say there's anything greedy about FFXIV's store just because it offers more. Outside of single character minions and mounts, the things that are sold in both stores tend to be cheaper in FFXIV, especially game service.

If SE wants to focus more on cash shop, make the game F2P. If not, then stop prioritising cash shop items that can't otherwise be obtained within the game.

Selling new items several times a year, some of which are expected as past seasonal rewards, is not SE prioritizing/focusing on the cash shop.

(But better yet, stop wasting resources by making more stuff for Mogstation and start working on things that need fixing, please.)

I doubt the Mog Station has any negative impact on SE seemingly not working on fixing what you think needs fixing.

[Delis]

Snip.

The team that adds items to the MogStation is a separate team from the Dev team that works on the games. Their sole job is to create items for the shop. It is not like the Devs are dropping everything they are doing and going to work on the MogStation items since again it is a separate team.

The MogStation came about because FFXIV needed server upgrades badly and SE didn't see the need for it (despite what some think all the money from our sub and revenue that comes in from the purchase of expansions etc doesn't all go back to FFXIV. It goes to SE and SE gives FFXIV a budget to work with and it isn't a large budget.) So the FFXIV team had to come up with a side hustle to help bring in more money to the team and the MogStation came to be (all the money that comes in goes to the FFXIV and not SE)

Yes we are getting one dungeon less right now, but lets look at what we are getting instead. Crafting and Gathering overhaul, which was needed and I am sure it didn't take a few hours or days to knock out. It took some time and resources. We have the Restoration which again didn't take just a few days to knock out. It is a pretty sizable project and took some time and resources and most people are speculating will lead to a new housing district. We are also getting Crafting and Gathering relics, which is pretty cool and I can't wait. Again I am sure that didn't take just a few days but took some time and resources. We got Ocean Fishing as well, again I am sure that took some time and resources to make. We also got some QoL changes.

We still have three beast tribes, we still have all the savage content, we still had an Ultimate released. We are getting relics with the upcoming patch, we still have EX trials coming out, we still have dungeons that come out, yes we are shorted a dungeon but again it is not like that was taken away and nothing else added in, because I listed above what we got instead. So what other content did we get shorted? I am not sure but if you know then let me know. Not trying to sound like a jerk I really am not sure what content we got shorted on, other than the one dungeon a patch.

As far as the two new races, I am sure they are working on the helms and hairstyles, and they may stay quiet on that till they have a large enough of helms etc that work before they say anything and push it out in a big batch in one of the patches. I don't know, we can only speculate about that, but I have a hard time thinking that they just aren't working on it, I am sure they are.

[Melichoir]

One of my friends pointed out something important: we're basically getting less content that comes with our sub for the same price. Not only are they really pushing adding more stuff to the cash shop (which basically means less stuff for us), but we're now getting one less dungeon per patch (for DoL/H stuff but that really shouldn't affect what we're getting), the collectors' edition of expansions don't come with as many perks/freebies as they did with (say) ARR, they didn't give us a healing class as we really needed one, Hrothgar & Viera are a total hot mess and despite making new gear (e.g. helmets and hair) they're not making them suitable for either race and they're gender locked, they're prioritising making shit for cash shop instead of working on instead of prioritising things that both need to be addressed (e.g. talking to the playerbase so we know what's going on with things like the healing classes, the races) and fixed.

Ive already addressed the "were getting less for the same price" position. But Ill elaborate again for you and anyone else who keeps banging on this point.

There is a failure of consideration for what is occuring currently in ffxiv. For starters, the "less dungeons" thing hasnt been fully explained yet. There are reasonable explanations for this issue. Namely the following:

Viera/Hrothgar Dissastisfaction - There's actually a lot to address here. Not only with the simple fact that theyre locked into one sex apiece which has made a decent part of the player base upset, the fact that customization is such a pain in the ass is also a problem. To fix either of these problems would require a lot more resources and time. As a result they may be pulling resources from other teams (Like dungeon development) to help cover this. This is particularly true IF (and its a big IF) theyre making the male/female varietns respectively, as this would require htem to go back and do heavy adjustments for armors and the like to get this to work. Now you can blame the devs for splitting them in the first place. You can say it was a poor decision, but it was the decision that was made none the less and thats where were at now. I would not, however, be suprised if this was where resources was being diverted too because it does seem that based on what we wer told, the decision to do two races instead of one came relatively late in the dev cycle for ShB.

Server load issues - This is a bit of a bigger one. There's actually a lot of issues with server load that have been mentioned off hand. This included everything from dungeon and raid servers, to housing servers, to instances on maps. The more dungeons they add (or content in general) along with their aspirations, the harder the servers are hit. It takes time and money to address this issue, which means that some resources may be diverted to addressing this. Especially since it has been on YoshiP's radar to increase housing item placement. On paper its super simple, but in practice...not so much.

Quality of Content - This is, admittedly more subjective a concept overall, but I think there is some level of objectivity to state that the overall quality of the content we have been recieving has been better than previous expansions. While one can argue we've been getting less (and even then I think that is a bit of a stretch as the only down sizing I can really point too atm is 1 less dungeon if we discount any issues like Hrothgar/Viera hairstyles as that is a separate issue that needs an overhaul), I think the quality of what weve gotten has been better. I like the beast tribes more this xpac than any previous ones. Mounts look nicer and cooler, Im a fan of the emotes and available items we are getting from the firmament. The boss fights and dungeons are funner, dialogue is better, etc etc. There is definitely better quality. That higher quality has more cost in terms of time and resources.


Now about htat prioritization...

As I mentioned before, SE isnt twirling their mustaches evilly thinking about how they can screw over the little guy. They are doing basic cost analysis and allocating resources as any major business would to maximize profit. They will dedicate some money to mog station exclusives if they feel that money will generate more revenue than putting it directly into the game. This is them diversifying their cash flow and its not a bad thing.

For example, if the Spriggen mount costed them 25k to develop, and it nets them 100k in purchases, that is a good use of their money. If they take that 25k and pump it into teh game, what do they get out of it? It wouldnt cover the cost of an extra dev, as theyre probably 40-60k a pop. It's not like they need it for art programs or assets, as those are already bought/leased and accounted for. Overtime maybe? Thats cost inefficient as hell and most businesses hate paying OT if possible. Sometimes the best thing for the game IS a mogstation item.

Then consider SE and what is on mogstation - Most of the items there are from existing events, which if you were subbed wouldve gotten. Or from Conventions. Or items you can purchase in game (Dyes), or do with out (jump potions and fantasia). There arent that many items that are specific to mog station glamor or mount wise. This isnt like Blizzard who uses Lootboxes for Glamour (Gambling Proxy), or EA who cuts off parts of the game to resell as DLC. SE, in this regards, is pretty on the level compared to most companies.

We already pay approximately $180 USD a year (+60 or more every two years) assuming we sub every month and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of players.

I did a cost breakdown on SE regarding FFXIV per month a few pages back. Even wiht the money they bring in, it doesnt mean its completely without overhead costs. And even in that break down, I DOUBLED the player base count average. FFXIV census, while out of date, displays around 750k active subs. I highly doubt FFXIV has doubled its sub count in that period of time. Even with the doubled average, After costs I said theyd maybe have 5 Million spare, at best.

Point is, you are assuming that theyre swimming in tons of cash, and I think this is a huge misconception from players complaining about this whole thing. Every dollar SE pulls in from Subs doesnt mean its a dollar to blow in vegas gangsta style. For every dollar they bring in, Id probably guess that 75 cents of it goes towards overall expenses, and thats optimistic.

Stop milking us like a massive barn of cash cows. This isn't a F2P game, so much items should not be locked behind a cash shop like a F2P game and the amount of content we get "for free" should not be dwindling. NEWSFLASH, IT'S NOT FREE. WE PAY EVERY MONTH. Patches come out every 3-4 months. Accumulatively, we pay approximately $45-$60 every patch release ($15*3=$45, $15*4=$60) for the new content they give us; that's the price of a whole new game. We don't usually get enough content to be worth the same price of an entirely new game. Therefore, the items and content we receive should not be dwindling as it is. Items should not be locked behind a cashshop (at least not as many as there currently are and will eventually grow to be.). There is a level of expectation of what a subbed MMO should provide with its content for paying customers VS a F2P game.

Oh please, just hush! You pay SE for the services you agreed upon. Your sub doesnt include 100% of every aspect of the game. It pays for probably 95% of everything that is available in the game, and that is a transaction YOU have agreed to with them. Theyre not milking you for jack. You are being given an extraordinary amount of goodies FOR YOUR SUB COST compared to what else is on the market, and when they release a side mount or glamour, That is purely UP TO YOU if you want to buy it as it is cosmetic. This isnt comparable to, again, Blizzard where if you want Glamours, gotta Lootbox that crap. Or EA where if you want the game you gotta buy that day one DLC for content. Could you even imagine playing this and Glamours and mounts were all Lootbox based where you were expected to pay CASH to gamble for those items? Or if you wanted to play the new neir raid, thats a $ tag you gotta buy or you cant go in.

That 60 you pay for an expac + sub over two years for 3 Tiers of Savage, 3 24 Man Raids between 7-12 dungeons, Like 7 extreme fights, MSQ, Weapon Quests, Side Quests, Crafting/Gathering Shenanigans, Holiday Events, Emotes and rewards from PvP and other events, Cross over content, and etc. And you are getting 'milked dry' by SE. Damn, for $60 for an expac by itself, I get more content than a standard AAA title now a days. Yet SE is the greedy ones here? Christ.

If SE wants to focus more on cash shop, make the game F2P. If not, then stop prioritising cash shop items that can't otherwise be obtained within the game. (But better yet, stop wasting resources by making more stuff for Mogstation and start working on things that need fixing, please.)

And I bet if this were the case people would still B about cash shop. Why might I think this? Cause I see this on other F2P MMOs. And btw, doesnt matter how you cut it, P2P MMOs tend to overall be better quality than their F2P counter parts, particularly since F2P ones tend to sacrifice quality for cost efficiency, and if they dont, they nickle and dime you way harder than the P2P models.

Sorry for being an ass, but I'm still pretty burnt on all the crap that's happened with Shadowbringers. Story aside (and the new DoH/L stuff is cool), it was easily the worst expansion release they've had so far in terms of classes and races and so on. I would take Raubahn EX over this fiasco. It just feels disrespectful. SE feels like they are being disrespected (and they are, to be fair), but they're also disrespecting us - their consumers. Without them, the game wouldn't exist. But without us, they wouldn't even have the funds to continue this game. We're codependent on each other, so we should be more respectful towards each other. As far as I'm concerned, they're acting like they're very entitled to our money and they're not. We choose to fund them. For our funding, they provide us with the game. It's like a patreon thing. One does not subscribe to his/her/their favourite youtuber or artist expecting to not benefit from it. One expects to benefit and their money be compensated in some way. If one is no longer benefiting, one unsubscribes. It's that simple. If a creator makes their memberbase unhappy, well... There goes a possible paycheck. What I'm trying to say is... It's good and fair to get paid for (it is their job), but they're not entitled to it as they've been acting and I'm finding this money grubbing attitude to be very tasteless and disrespectful.

Sorry you dont like ShB. Plenty of people do though. If you dont like what SE is doing, unsub. Stop paying money into a business model you dont like. Its your wallet, your money. You dont have to pay for anything you disapprove of. Ive done this with several games myself. Where Ive become so disgusted with the direction of those games I stopped purchasing things from them. However, it looks more like you want to rant and rave and complain about $26 and think that SE is being 'soooo unfairrrrrr' and greedy, and arent looking at things not only from THEIR PERSPECTIVE, but also in perspective of the market and what were being offered. Does this mean I dont have criticisms for SE? Of course not. Ive got my gripes to have. But this isnt one of them. This is reasonable to me. If I want that mount, I buy it. If I dont want it, Id ont buy it. If enough people dont buy mounts, SE will look into other revenue methods. If people say "Hmm this seems reasonable" and buy it, SE will continue to this. And please dont resort to that tired argument of "People are stupid and suckered into things." Most of the players in this game arent stupid. They can think for themselves and come to the conclusion of whether something is worth their money or not. This isnt some conspiracy or evil natured action. Its basic Econ 101. Stop complaining and do something if you have a problem about it. Unsub and spend your money on Brands you think are giving you the deal you want.