Mogstation taking another step to the darkside

[Saefinn]

I see what you are saying but I have to disagree. Smart people should question why they pay a sub and still cant get all the items in the game.

But you're getting EXACTLY what your sub is paying for. Its giving you access to an online multiplayer game that's constantly growing and evolving with regular on schedule content filled with new items including (but not limited to) gear, glamours, mounts, emotes, pets and so on (you get a lot more in game than what they sell on the cash shop). It gives you new content modes when they're released. Seasonal events. You get access to new storylines and an MSQ with a growing increase in quality and value. If we didn't pay for a subscription, then we'd probably be looking at a game of a similar production value as Guild Wars 2 or any MMO with an F2P model that works, which is still a great game, but it is still of a lower production quality, with less in the way of big updates, less regular updates, less in the way of new shinies and so on, the time between expansions is longer. Battle and content design is way weaker (my main gripe was their artificial difficulty). There's also less variety in terms of how I can glamour my characters. But the GW2 do great with what they have.

But there's a reason why some people prefer a subscription model to an F2P one.

The cash shop, yes, it provides them with more money, that's more money that can go into the game without compromising any of the game's features or play-ability. But most importantly, it's an additional service. Not one that's included as part of your subscription. Nor is it something you're entitled to because you've subscribed, nor are you losing anything (and if a portion of that cash shop money is going back into the game, then you're also indirectly getting something out of it).

[Lathander81]

But you're getting EXACTLY what your sub is paying for. Its giving you access to an online multiplayer game that's constantly growing and evolving with regular on schedule content filled with new items including (but not limited to) gear, glamours, mounts, emotes, pets and so on (you get a lot more in game than what they sell on the cash shop). It gives you new content modes when they're released. Seasonal events. You get access to new storylines and an MSQ with a growing increase in quality and value. If we didn't pay for a subscription, then we'd probably be looking at a game of a similar production value as Guild Wars 2 or any MMO with an F2P model that works, which is still a great game, but it is still of a lower production quality, with less in the way of big updates, less regular updates, less in the way of new shinies and so on, the time between expansions is longer. Battle and content design is way weaker (my main gripe was their artificial difficulty). There's also less variety in terms of how I can glamour my characters. But the GW2 do great with what they have.

But there's a reason why some people prefer a subscription model to an F2P one.

The cash shop, yes, it provides them with more money, that's more money that can go into the game without compromising any of the game's features or play-ability. But most importantly, it's an additional service. Not one that's included as part of your subscription. Nor is it something you're entitled to because you've subscribed, nor are you losing anything (and if a portion of that cash shop money is going back into the game, then you're also indirectly getting something out of it).

I know what I am getting and I know what I am not getting. Thank you for the very unneeded list. Again if you are cool with them stuffing the cashshop with items that could be in the game then cool. In my opinion, any mount or other tiem should be available to people that pay. Also they make money other ways than just the cashshop. So dont give me that bull about needing it to make more content. The have an irl shop as well...they also sell ticket for events...the list goes on. If you want to keep drinking the koolaid then be my guest. This is greed pure and simple...you can tell that by the price of the mount.

[Vahlnir]

I know what I am getting and I know what I am not getting. Thank you for the very unneeded list. Again if you are cool with them stuffing the cashshop with items that could be in the game then cool. In my opinion, any mount or other tiem should be available to people that pay. Also they make money other ways than just the cashshop. So dont give me that bull about needing it to make more content. The have an irl shop as well...they also sell ticket for events...the list goes on. If you want to keep drinking the koolaid then be my guest. This is greed pure and simple...you can tell that by the price of the mount.

Yoshi P has said before that the game's money doesn't always go back into the game. I think it is pretty obvious when SE's got a hot new title they're working on, the game suffers a bit. Unfortunately, the devs probably DO need whatever money they can get from the cash shop to keep pushing out content, because they definitely don't get the money and manpower they deserve. Still though, every business exists to make money, so a little greed is always a factor.

[Saefinn]

I know what I am getting and I know what I am not getting. Thank you for the very unneeded list. Again if you are cool with them stuffing the cashshop with items that could be in the game then cool. In my opinion, any mount or other tiem should be available to people that pay. Also they make money other ways than just the cashshop. So dont give me that bull about needing it to make more content. The have an irl shop as well...they also sell ticket for events...the list goes on. If you want to keep drinking the koolaid then be my guest. This is greed pure and simple...you can tell that by the price of the mount.

As your initial dismissive comment to those who disagree with you was "Smart people should question why they pay a sub and still cant get all the items in the game" it felt pertinent to clarify what our sub is paying for and why we should pay our sub when we don't get items from the cash shop in game without buying them.

But it's not BS and I didn't say it's /needed/ to make content, but if money is paid back into the game, that's more to be spent on content.

The truth of the matter is, we don't know if it is greed or if the money is put back to benefit of the game or if it's put out to benefit other games. Hence my statement was not a concrete one. Unless we see how the cash flow and budgeting works at SE, how much goes back to the game, how much goes to the company as a whole, how much lines people's pockets, then we're working on speculation here.

Whilst I am anti corporate greed, my first assumption isn't always gonna be "company trying to make more money off of additional services? They must be greedy". I would be more interested in knowing what they're doing with their money before I make the connection. I prefer evidence over speculation. By all means, you're welcome to the opinion that a cash shop shouldn't exist when you're using a subscription model, just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they're less smart or drinking the Koolaid.

However, I don't think it takes anything away from my experience of playing the game and is generally quite inoffensive, not like games that favour lootboxes or just the general horror of the mobile game's market, which can take a perfectly good game and ruin it with currencies and pay walls.

But what's not speculative is that your subscription is paying for the service you're getting. It's not unusual for a subscription to have additional purchases to it. I have a recipe box subscription, it provides me with everything I need. But they also offer extras I can buy that may subscription doesn't pay for.

However, let's say hypothetically that the cash shop did not exist, you paid your sub and the game existed exactly as it is right now just without any of the items we currently have on the cash shop. Would you feel like you're being cheated? That you are deprived of anything despite what you're paying your subscription for?

[Saefinn]

So if they stopped having glamour in the game you are cool with that too? If they charged for dungeon runs thats cool? If you have been playing the game for a while you would know this is not an "every so often" thing. Also it does take away from the game...Im paying a whole sub...not half but a full sub. Everything that is made for the game I should have access to..period. If you are cool with a game taking your full sub and staking shit out for you to pay extra then thats on you.

But...they're not? This is a slippery slope fallacy.

They're charging for vanity items and jump potions. Not taking things away from the game. If they started taking the mick and the balance was off on what they're adding to the shop, especially if they're taking content and features from the game and locking them behind another pay wall, then yes, I would have a problem.

But the odd vanity item and jump potions? Absolutely fine. SE have remained a consistent balance with what goes on the mogstation that I've never felt to be unreasonable and I don't feel they have ever abused it.

[Lathander81]

But...they're not? This is a slippery slope fallacy.

They're charging for vanity items and jump potions. Not taking things away from the game. If they started taking the mick and the balance was off on what they're adding to the shop, especially if they're taking content and features from the game and locking them behind another pay wall, then yes, I would have a problem.

But the odd vanity item and jump potions? Absolutely fine. SE have remained a consistent balance with what goes on the mogstation that I've never felt to be unreasonable and I don't feel they have ever abused it.

Vanity is a part of the game. If you can see that then I dont know what to tell you. They have basically done everything but sell power at this point. Why do people have to wait for that to say something. You maybe fine with it but Im not. Its unreasonable to ask your customers to pay for a sub that may include storage and expansions and then bait them with "vanity" items in an ever growing cashshop. When I first started playing all that was in there was dye, change potions and last years seasonal events items. Now its like a f2p cashshop that would make some of them blush...hell even Fornite skins are cheaper lol.

[REPROBEAN_CHILD]

Vanity is a part of the game. If you can see that then I dont know what to tell you. They have basically done everything but sell power at this point. Why do people have to wait for that to say something. You maybe fine with it but Im not. Its unreasonable to ask your customers to pay for a sub that may include storage and expansions and then bait them with "vanity" items in an ever growing cashshop. When I first started playing all that was in there was dye, change potions and last years seasonal events items. Now its like a f2p cashshop that would make some of them blush...hell even Fornite skins are cheaper lol.

No offense, but it seems like you've never played an mmo other than FFXIV. The fact you even brought up Fortnite tells me that. That game is a poor example to use in this context. Just because vanity is a part of FFXIV game doesn't make you entitled to get anything you want. And honestly, compared to other mmos, what FFXIV does is astoundingly tame. Have you played Black Desert or Blade and Soul? I see people here complain that costumes in FFXIV are $18, which is honestly rather steep. Do you know how much they cost in BDO? Between $29 and $32 PER OUTFIT on a SINGLE CHARACTER. Then you have BnS's deceptive point system. $10 = 800 NC Points. So when you see outfits for 1440 NC points, unless you're constantly doing math, you won't know how much you're actually spending. Items that cost 44 NC Points cost more than they seem. Also, vanity is a part of those games, too. Yet, neither of them expect you to spend $32 on every single costume in a store. That's insane. They only want you to take what you want.
Again, stop seeing FFXIV, BDO, and BnS as traditional $60 console games. Call of Duty's online for each game lasts an over of 1 to 2 years. FFXIV's online is over 10 years old and costs more to sustain for so long.

[Theodric]

They're optional items marketed to players with a disposable income and a willingness to spend it.

[Lathander81]

So that should include people that pay the sub...gaming is apart of disposable income. What is tour point? So now people paying the sub dont matter? You are problably right...which is messed up.

[Eldevern]

There are a few things bothering me :
events items - they should be available each year during recurring events as soon as we participated (cherry trees in cash shop? thanks but I will pass).
items need to be account wide

Exclusivity in cash-shop...? Well... whale hunt is whale hunt... I'm not a fan but I get the logic.