As a dungeon runner...

[Malmstrom]

I'm glad they only added one dungeon this time around. Kept it from getting boring too quickly.

Right?

...right?

I want more dungeons.

[Stanelis]

Honestly dungeons feel currently like outdated and low replayability design. It s fun the first time, not so much after n times.

[Malmstrom]

Which is why having more than one released at a time helps. Keeps it from feeling too pointless after you get whatever you want out of it. Having 2+ at least keeps it from going stale immediately.

[DuskTS]

As a guildhest runner I've been starved for content since ARR.

[Melichoir]

Honestly dungeons feel currently like outdated and low replayability design. It s fun the first time, not so much after n times.

Its honestly cause theyre too linear and straight forward. No matter how pretty they look, boss mechanics and direction of dungeons is literally a gauntlet of enemies. Big pull to first boss, Wipe out stuff. Boss fight. Big pull to second boss, wipe out stuff, Second boss. Etc etc.

They need to sit down and think about design mechanics. I think one thing dungeons need to offer is variety of completion - either multiple paths with separate rewards per path that youre RNGed into (to prevent people just min maxing and selecting hte same path over and over), puzzles or challanges built into the dungeon that require something more to do than kill stuff (jump quest where 2 people in your party need to complete it to unlock a path so you all can proceed forward), challange bonuses for the dungeons (Speed clears, No deaths, dont use items, has to be synced, etc etc.) that feeds into a possible weekly ladder challange for things like MGP or bonus materials. Such as all runner ups get 10k MGP, while first gets 50, second gets 40, and third gets 30k MPG or possibly rewards kind of like how Khloe's journal operates. Or how about bonus mini bosses that are spawned when you complete certain objectives for the dungeon.

There's a lot they can do that can add variety and interest to dungeons, but they need to actually do it. Only thing I foresee being a problem is players will get pissed and say "It's to hard!" and whine.

[TheMightyMollusk]

They only have the budget for so many corridors at a time. Please understand.

[Kuroka]

/sign

I want more, i hate the current one and miss the old hard dungeons so much... it was nice gettin a new touch to known dungneons....

[SamRF]

Really wish I could do old dungeons without feeling handicapped

[Jojoya]

Which is why having more than one released at a time helps. Keeps it from feeling too pointless after you get whatever you want out of it. Having 2+ at least keeps it from going stale immediately.

But it's still pointless once you have what you want.

You could always be running some of the other 60+ dungeons in the game if all you're after is variety in dungeon running.

Its honestly cause theyre too linear and straight forward. No matter how pretty they look, boss mechanics and direction of dungeons is literally a gauntlet of enemies. Big pull to first boss, Wipe out stuff. Boss fight. Big pull to second boss, wipe out stuff, Second boss. Etc etc.

They need to sit down and think about design mechanics. I think one thing dungeons need to offer is variety of completion - either multiple paths with separate rewards per path that youre RNGed into (to prevent people just min maxing and selecting hte same path over and over), puzzles or challanges built into the dungeon that require something more to do than kill stuff (jump quest where 2 people in your party need to complete it to unlock a path so you all can proceed forward), challange bonuses for the dungeons (Speed clears, No deaths, dont use items, has to be synced, etc etc.) that feeds into a possible weekly ladder challange for things like MGP or bonus materials. Such as all runner ups get 10k MGP, while first gets 50, second gets 40, and third gets 30k MPG or possibly rewards kind of like how Khloe's journal operates. Or how about bonus mini bosses that are spawned when you complete certain objectives for the dungeon.

There's a lot they can do that can add variety and interest to dungeons, but they need to actually do it. Only thing I foresee being a problem is players will get pissed and say "It's to hard!" and whine.

Those alternate designs don't work in practice when players are primarily entering as a random group formed through a Duty Finder roulette.

Most players simply want to get in and out as fast as possible with their tomestones and whatever loot they manage to get. They aren't interested in exploring or taking the path less efficient. They're going to abandon duty the moment they find they need to complete a jump puzzle to progress then complain loudly to SE that it was stupid to add in jump puzzles when people who like jump puzzles already have Leap of Faith and the sightseeing logs.

Creating such dungeons as you suggest ends up a waste of developer time and resources when so few players end up fully utilizing them.

I know that this is the point some people would go "but Savage and Ultimate!". Those are mostly reused assets with a few graphics tweaks and new mechanics added in, something that takes relatively little time to accomplish compared to creating a complex dungeon from scratch.

[Melichoir]

Those alternate designs don't work in practice when players are primarily entering as a random group formed through a Duty Finder roulette.

Why wouldnt it work? Are we assuming the player base is so inept they cant move through one corridor compared to another? Or that they cant complete jump puzzles? Or that objective based completion would be beyond them? Im not saying make the player scale mount everest, but rather they manage to walk up a short hill at the worst.

Most players simply want to get in and out as fast as possible with their tomestones and whatever loot they manage to get. They aren't interested in exploring or taking the path less efficient. They're going to abandon duty the moment they find they need to complete a jump puzzle to progress then complain loudly to SE that it was stupid to add in jump puzzles when people who like jump puzzles already have Leap of Faith and the sightseeing logs.

See, I disagree. I think the opposite is gonna end up being true. Players who were vocal about it being to hard are a minority and that the player base would honestly appreciate more complexity from their dungeons. Where dungeons are a thing you have fun doing, and not a chore you fill out on a checklist. This is the problem with things being casual. There is such a thing as being too casual, to easy, to simple, to straight forward. If there's no reason to explore, nothing worth seeing, nothing fun to do, why would I even bother going over to those side routes. Way dungeons are designed now, they're just time sinks that if it were not for the daily tomestones, most people would ever bother with them simply because they are not fun to play.

Since loot is useless from dungeons, its more important to get Tomestones, and alternate paths just offer you pure trash, why would anyone spend any time in that dungeon. They turned it into a speed run by minimizing player interest, which I dont believe is what players overall wanted. Trash your own attraction, and then wonder why people dont bother visiting it.

Creating such dungeons as you suggest ends up a waste of developer time and resources when so few players end up fully utilizing them.

I know that this is the point some people would go "but Savage and Ultimate!". Those are mostly reused assets with a few graphics tweaks and new mechanics added in, something that takes relatively little time to accomplish compared to creating a complex dungeon from scratch.

Most hard modes in of earlier dungeons were just reused assets. And since they were cranking out two dungeons per patch and dialing it back to one, it leaves us to wonder what exactly are they doing with that extra time? So if its a time constraint that's worth while, that seems a bit odd since they should have more time now unless theyre using that time to create F/M Hrothgar/Viera. As for 'content' for players, since the broad bulk fo hte player base doesnt do savage, wouldnt it make more sense to dump time and complexity into content most players have access too. What good is grinding out tomestones in a boring dungeon if you never plan on doing savage. Even if the gear is better than what you have, most players arent so stupid that they cant see it's pointless if they can clear current dungeons without issue by being I lvl 440.

People keep saying "Give me more to do" but then we keep saying "Nah, more complex dungeons and things, no one will want that?" That seems stupid. I used to remember people cleared all of Brayflox in ARR for exp and items. They dont do it anymore cause all would be rewards are useless, and if the only incentive is "You want to kill more monsters just cause", of course people are just gonna make a straight line to the end. Why wouldnt they?