Some views on DPS balance that everyone cares about

[Ramura_Sono]

What? If you think we aren't paying for Everlasting Flight let me introduce you to all the Firebird Trance summon methods we have listed to dance around the fact that it's causing Phoenix to never react to an immediate Fountain of Fire. Not to mention that EF is a happenstance benefit where we do not adjust its place for the healing benefit, if our Trances misalign so that FBT isn't after raid wides then it ends up as majority overheal. Healers can incorporate it into their end methods that may at best save a small number of GCDs, but it's not something that should be a punishment to SMN (as it technically already is mechanically). Raise is the only valid point that has been rehashed repeatedly. Please don't misassign costs without even having familiarity with the job.

The issue is that it still seems like free utility to the majority of people. That it interacts poorly with demi actions is just another reason to remove it. Personally I could care less about EF but as long as it exists people will always point to it when Summoner gets too close to BLM.

let me introduce you to all the Firebird Trance summon methods we have listed

Can't find. Please assist.

[Nemekh]

Here: http://www.akhmorning.com/guide/demi/#hl_111 & http://www.akhmorning.com/guide/demi/#hl_171

Every method designed to circumvent the animation lock phoenix suffers where if they simply addressed it, of which there is a simple solution, every FBT could begin the same way with a standard double weave. And yet even when employing these methods for some players a scarlet flame is going to be lost regardless due to the latency-sensitive nature of demi windows.

EF is not a main thing people point to. It's everything else especially when they seem to believe SMN is doing more (when it's just better-geared smns in better runs/comps performing out of their minds and everything is very much not equal in consideration). If there's one thing I know it's that people as a whole are bad with statistics.

[RylaBee]

This isn't fully true anymore. We have Earthen Armor (a more frequent, more costly Manaward!) which if you're progging in an environment that isn't safe you either prog with titan out, or you hold an EA1, swap to titan and use the shield as necessary, then swap back.

I think my definition of prog is wastly different from yours Nemekh.

You are thinking learning mechanics and creating strategies when rotations dont yet matter.
For me, prog is already following existing guides and perfecting my rotation against the mechanics. Which I cannot do with Titan.

PS: if I had time to summon Titan, wait for it to get active and make it shield me, the healer would have already topped me. ^^

The issue is that it still seems like free utility to the majority of people. That it interacts poorly with demi actions is just another reason to remove it. Personally I could care less about EF but as long as it exists people will always point to it when Summoner gets too close to BLM.

I LOVE to meet that "majority of the people", who think, that EF is anything but fluff.

[Nemekh]

Your rotation doesn't really change with Titan out from the get-go and that's the beauty of the current scenario with him. You are down R4s, sure, but you are still using the same button as R2 instead. It's then just a choice to hold EA1 otherwise the rest plays out all the same whether it's him out or ifrit. If your survival is in question as people are learning he's really good to use and the cost of using him isn't the end of the world. Healers have to get used to what they're doing against mechanics too, even with guides already out.

[NaiXizi]

How to adjust this, transfer most of the firepower of R2 and Egi Assault to other places, such as R3 and Wyrmwave, etc., greatly increase the damage ratio of Wyrmwave and R3 and Scarlet Flame. Making it lose a skill will lose a lot of firepower, so that SMN will not be able to play very high because of novice pressing, and can effectively reduce the mobility of SMN, but the firepower can be unchanged. This lowers the lower limit of SMN and keeps the upper limit unchanged, making it difficult for novices to play high firepower, and veterans can play high firepower. And the operation is the same, it will not affect the veteran, but will only increase the practice cost of the novice.
And redo embolden, so that it becomes a full attribute buff, and the gain it gets is the same as before, so that RDM can enter more teams, no longer limited by the all-physical team, and the absorbed rdps is unchanged.

[Silverquick]

As someone who has argued with Silverquick before on other threads, when he starts repeating himself its best to just back out, either he'll take the time to understand it or will just keep bringing it up in other threads until he starts to get it when more people explain it. You and others have explained adequetely what his misconceptions are, its on him to understand them.

No you have not,

You have not answered the questions I brought up and they are still unanswered. That said. Make no mistake here, I agree with Nemekh more often than not, this just happened to be the one time I do not and specifically because of those things I linked earlier. They are unanswered questions and remain so.

For the record here I even agree with Nemekh on the use of Titan.

[Renkei]

Wrong. BLM has 2 teleport abilities and Manaward to live past some mistakes.

SMN is the true glass cannon of the entire game, you have no jump in/out abilities and no shields or heals.
Pugging prog a lot, I can tell you, how it is almost exclusively me to end on the floor when healers couldnt top-off party before AoE for any reason.
Healer will ou-shit heal or shield themeselves, RDM will vercure, BLM will manaward and non-cloth classes have more health and second wind.

SMN has.. physics.

I play Dragoon and i literally get locked in place for .7 seconds on jumps and 1.2 seconds on Star Divers, You can cast at 25m which is radially most the majority of all the arena's and your summons have attack ranges of 100ms, I don't think you should be getting hit at all as DPS as general, but if you look into HPS on dps, SMN has on average the highest Highest HPS for NOT having to worry about using it as an extra ability, you don't need to go out of the way to provide good HPS, which i find odd and strange, for example in Ramuh due to timings, Summoners have double the HPS of Melee and Triple of Range jobs, It even beats Dancer in HPS in that fight due to how Phoenix is timed, I wouldn't exactly call 700 HPS without trying Glass cannon without utility, considering you guys also have self heals in emergency situations (when the boss jumps for example) It is strange because it's raid wide heals, and doesn't effect your weaves since its kitted into summoners rotation.

Some of it ends up being over-heals, but the time it counts you can get easily around 2k-4k+ heals to the group in 10 seconds.

Let's not lie to ourselves though because everyone knows that summoner is over-tuned and i wouldn't be surprised if they get toned down next patch.

[Myon88]

Calling everlasting flight 'utility' by looking at HPS instead of whether it's actually healing anything important, is like saying dragoons have mad mobility cause of jumps, even though 90% of time you're already in melee range and just use them for damage. Would you hold dragonfire dive for a minute just to gap close, when you could've just walked? Nah, neither is a summoner going to shift phoenix around or care about the heal at all when the healer is going to do it anyway. This is a pretty flawed argument.

But now you give me an idea, maybe it's time to start taxing dragoons like a ranged cause they're obviously a pseudo-ranged with all this free mobility.

[Miminming]

oh hey my everlasting HPS is 478!!! and i overheal 87%!!!
oh hey look the melee have a 100ish HPS for bloodbath and second wind!!! they over heal 0-10%!!!

[Lastelli]

I play Dragoon and i literally get locked in place for .7 seconds on jumps and 1.2 seconds on Star Divers, You can cast at 25m which is radially most the majority of all the arena's and your summons have attack ranges of 100ms, I don't think you should be getting hit at all as DPS as general, but if you look into HPS on dps, SMN has on average the highest Highest HPS for NOT having to worry about using it as an extra ability, you don't need to go out of the way to provide good HPS, which i find odd and strange, for example in Ramuh due to timings, Summoners have double the HPS of Melee and Triple of Range jobs, It even beats Dancer in HPS in that fight due to how Phoenix is timed, I wouldn't exactly call 700 HPS without trying Glass cannon without utility, considering you guys also have self heals in emergency situations (when the boss jumps for example) It is strange because it's raid wide heals, and doesn't effect your weaves since its kitted into summoners rotation.

Some of it ends up being over-heals, but the time it counts you can get easily around 2k-4k+ heals to the group in 10 seconds.

Let's not lie to ourselves though because everyone knows that summoner is over-tuned and i wouldn't be surprised if they get toned down next patch.

You must be joking. Please stop talking about things you're not familiar with. Try healing some savage with a SMN in you party, maybe you'll realize how pointless that regen is.