Some views on DPS balance that everyone cares about

[Vendalwind]

Myon you waaaaaay overextended and made assumltions on my points. My points were simple and not pointed towards any class in paricular, nor towards you solely, but earlier you claimed difficulty shouldnt be used as a balance point and that was in fact hypocritical of you to say based on past statements of yours.

No I do not think the balance right now is perfect. Its acceptable but some tweaks are still needed. Yes i do think SMN is overtuned at the moment. No I wont tell you why in specifics right now cause ive followed this thread since it only had one page and its very plain to me that picking a fight with you on this subject will yield very few positives.

[Myon88]

Good, it's better for all of us if you don't waste time arguing for the sake of arguing, just because you'd rather not agree with me. I don't think you even understood what I said, considering all you did was make circular statements about how 'balancing comes down to difficulty', when I just spent half the post showing why it's not always the case.

And frankly I don't even know why I have to be the one defending the ranged, maybe I have a soft spot for them since I used to be a ranged main. If anyone wants to try and rationalize how doing extra mechanics in ucob is 'easier difficulty', be my guest. I look forward to seeing the gymnastics you'll have to do to make that happen.

[Nemekh]

Vendalwind I urge you to also look at the RDPS graphs on my site to see how balance sits, with only a couple of small outliers at the tail end of the DPS jobs. If you look purely at ADPS then sure, but that's a very skewed metric as it is.

[Lastelli]

Myon you waaaaaay overextended and made assumltions on my points. My points were simple and not pointed towards any class in paricular, nor towards you solely, but earlier you claimed difficulty shouldnt be used as a balance point and that was in fact hypocritical of you to say based on past statements of yours.

No I do not think the balance right now is perfect. Its acceptable but some tweaks are still needed. Yes i do think SMN is overtuned at the moment. No I wont tell you why in specifics right now cause ive followed this thread since it only had one page and its very plain to me that picking a fight with you on this subject will yield very few positives.

If SMN is overtuned, so is BLM. After all, they're neck and neck in terms of rDPS on average, with an obvious advantage for BLM in full uptime single target scenario (Ramuh). Damn, even in e7s, where SMN can inflate its numbers by multidotting during the adds phase way more than BLM can, they're basically even.
At the end of the day, balance is close to perfect right now or, at the very least, it's the best it's ever been. The truth is, people will whine regardless as long as their preferred job is not the undisputed best choice.

[Vendalwind]

Good, it's better for all of us if you don't waste time arguing for the sake of arguing, just because you'd rather not agree with me. I don't think you even understood what I said

And its very obvious you didnt understand what i said either. Good day to you beligerant one.

[Vendalwind]

Vendalwind I urge you to also look at the RDPS graphs on my site to see how balance sits, with only a couple of small outliers at the tail end of the DPS jobs. If you look purely at ADPS then sure, but that's a very skewed metric as it is.

I have spent time on your site(s) like i said i do think balance is pretty solid right now. But much of balance is still a perception/opinion thing, and in cumulus i feel summoner is still a bit overtuned and the ranged classes are slightly undertuned. I also think there are a few within roles that need adjusting but thats cause i hold a different view than many on how rdps classes vs adps classes should line up.

Im happy with balance. But some of the talking points here are just people providing superficial reasoning and then pretending they arent talking about difficulty as a balancing point when in point of fact... they are.

[Vendalwind]

If SMN is overtuned, so is BLM.

Although i do not think their output should be equivalent, yes. I actually also hold the opinion That black mage shouldnt necessarily hold the pole position it does.

However blm and smn are both very different and saying, as you do, that one overtuned implies the other is not actually logical.

[Lastelli]

However blm and smn are both very different and saying, as you do, that one overtuned implies the other is not actually logical.

I disagree. Given the existence of the role bonus, dps jobs compete with other jobs in the same role first, while the fourth spot is flexible and so there's a little competition among all dps jobs. A situation where a job in the same role deals much more damage than the others should be avoided at all costs, as that would simply translate to a clear meta choice for that role. I've seen many players say that SMN is overpowered while completely ignoring BLM when the only thing that will happen if SMN was significantly nerfed is a situation where BLM is the only meta caster, while now there's a little more competition for the fourth slot (second caster vs second melee).

[Cosaint]

I disagree. Given the existence of the role bonus, dps jobs compete with other jobs in the same role first, while the fourth spot is flexible and so there's a little competition among all dps jobs. A situation where a job in the same role deals much more damage than the others should be avoided at all costs, as that would simply translate to a clear meta choice for that role. I've seen many players say that SMN is overpowered while completely ignoring BLM when the only thing that will happen if SMN was significantly nerfed is a situation where BLM is the only meta caster, while now there's a little more competition for the fourth slot (second caster vs second melee).

If you are talking about pure damage, then yes, you have a point. But when you think of all the utility SMN brings with it, either they shouldn't have that utility or they shouldn't do as much damage. At least that's what the design philosophy that Yoshi-P says the Dev team has been following since Stormblood battle rework.

SMN right now is definitely overtuned for what it brings to the table, compared to BLM. It's like saying a burger and a soda is the same as just a burger.

[Myon88]

It's like saying a burger and a soda is the same as just a burger.

It pretty much is, the issue is you're thinking of it in terms of what you get, instead of the amount of money those things cost. There are dozens of places where $10 gets you a burger and soda, it's probably the most common fast food meal out there. But there are also places where $10 gets you just a burger. Maybe it's an 'artisanal' burger served with a knife and fork with salt shavings from the Himalayas.

Now, you may think it's a ripoff, but the fact is that burger exists and it has a market. Maybe it's quants working in the financial district with more money than sense, just not your market.