Quote Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna View Post
I have, but if you couldnt tell this is the only system ive actually enjoyed. Too many MMOs to name and the only one that held my attention for more than a couple weeks is FFXI/FFXIV.



Solo? Party? Raid? There is no blanket statement here. Being a raid dps takes no skill at all under a "WoW" sort of system (not that it orginated there but whatever). You know what you do? Spam your skills in a practiced predetermined rotation while a cpl raid healers keep your hp up. Skill? Laughable. If danger comes guess what? You can run away! The only skills required in this situation are finger dexterity and knowing when to run away. Even tho, most ppl dont even bother running in those situations...thats the normal culture.

If you're a mage its the same thing, spam spam spam in a predetermined rotation. Tank? Spam spam spam in a predetermined rotation. The only two classes that really face difficulties in that situation are healers and tanks, due to the sheer amount of finger dexterity required to keep up with everything. Other than that its a joke. Unless you're a healer, or *maybe* a tank, all you need to do is press buttons as fast as you can to run up parser. Pvp? Same thing. I press my buttons faster than you I win, unless your gear is way more OP than mine. Because things move so fast there's very little time for strategy, since it is over within a few seconds anyway. Generally speaking, gear being equal, first hit wins almost every time, not counting class advantages.




A clock just gives a time limit. FFXIV has the same time limit...for instance you have a combo clock which gives you only few seconds to decide whether you will risk an animation lock or whether you'll play it safe and wait.



Thats just it, fast-paced games dont necessarily require you to think. I've played WoW; unless you're a healer or *maybe* a tank you dont need to think at all. If you do you're a newb, because you've been doing the same skill rotation for god knows how long. WoW is a gear game, not a thinking game. If your gear is superior you will pwn. That is just the fact of it. The only real thinkers are healers, but healers are thinkers in every game. If you want to play a trigger-happy game that is about skill, go play an FPS. MMORPGs can't mimick that sort of difficulty because the way an MMO is designed to work. At most itll give you a button mashing format to keep your mind feeling "alive," but in no way are you really "thinking". Its "twitch combat", which is a function of reflex more than a function of thought and strategy.

The difficulty in games like WoW is a physical one..the ability to react accurately and efficiently. The difficulty in games like FFXIV is mental, the ability to predict and take strategized actions within a certain time limit. One style isn't more difficult than another, I just find WoW to be a poor example of actually difficult twitch combat...mostly due to the way that gear trumps everything in that game. An FPS is truly twitch combat.

So you're saying that a culture in which DDs have to move out of mechanics requires less skill than a culture where DDs don't move at all, eat damage, and have the healer hold their hand even further? The second is XI and XIV, if you did not know.

Everything you say in here can be turned around on XI and XIV, with even more criticism. How was DDing in XI not just as per-determined of a "rotation" other than the fact it as 100x slower than WoW? There's no difference. Auto attack for TP > WS > Repeat. Highest tier Thunder > Highest tier Blizzard > wtfever Blms did. How's that take skill...? That's laughable. And the best part is you just tank and spanked, there was NO mechanics to make you survive in bosses on 11 (as a healer I love the idea that DDs can be smart and avoid damage so I can focus on a tank, or that they out-right die if they don't move and it's totally their own fault). You just zerged like an idiot and got healed through it. XI did not take skill but everyone who played it seems to be under the delusion that it did so that they can think they were a great gamer.

XI "raiders" don't know anything about actual mmo mechanics. FFXI fights were little more than "Don't attack the mob," "Attack the mob," and "Zerg the mob." That's the modes that existed in encounters in that game. The only things I can recall in XI that people moved out of to avoid were Stonega from Kirin and Citadel Buster off Proto-Ultima... what the hell else did people move out of? NOTHING. We ate astral flows with our bibs already nestled in our shirt collar and we dined on self-destructs. We just took dmg to the face without a care in the world because a healer would put a band aid on our stupid DD ass and we'd keep on going. No, this was not skill. Nor was the millions of gil spent on your Kraken Clubs, if you want to talk about gear playing your class for you.

There is not a single piece of gear in WoW that made you a better player, helped you dodge boss mechanics, or made you win raids. The player's ability did all of that. You say other mmos couldn't hold your interest for more than a couple of weeks? Then I doubt you even hit max level, let alone raided in WoW, and if you didn't do those and do them for an extended period of time you have no idea what you are even talking about.

Furthermore, you have to predict abilities in WoW even more than you did in XI or XIV because they actually require you to move unlike the previously mentioned XI mechanics. XIV is trying to be more like WoW but sadly still suffers from the ability to find an infinitely safe spot to huddle in and then dps rotation without ANY care in the world (or skill).


If we want to talk about an FPS being "truly twitch" then lets compare. What's the better FPS: the one where you have to run between cover and return fire while trying not to get hit, or the one where you stand in the middle of a field, not moving, continually shooting and reloading while your buddy med-packs you back to full life to take the incoming damage? I'll let you figure out the right answer.




All of this said, this has boiled down to hijacking a thread about animation locking and turning it into a Final Fantasy VS The World discussion; which may not be completely unwarranted but it's not exactly the original purpose, either. The world is a big place, though... might care to take more than a couple of weeks to sample the other things it has to offer.