Physical range dps damage?

[SaitoHikari]

MCH definately needs some buffs. It has the same utility almost as SAM or BLM and yet as far as im aware RDM does more damage than it.

Let me say that again - Red mage does more damage than machinist, and regardless of movement too. People will use the excuse of "Oh well we can move and shoot at the same time" but honestly, that's just a benefit of the role and shouldn't be justification of why they're currently AS weak as they currently are, especially when you consider most downtime in fights these days is forced like in phase transitions when the boss goes untargetable etc.

Literally the only reason MCH is as weak as it is in comparison to the other roles is because BRD and DNC exist. The developers cannot give MCH the personal damage to actually be worthy of the selfish DPS title without resulting in them becoming the meta ranged job that gets BRDs and DNCs kicked from statics.

The real issue isn't that BRD and DNC's personal damage is low anyway, it's that their total contribution is still low even after their utility and buffs to their party members are taken into account. Again, there's a reason why there are people that literally argue that you only bring a ranged for the 1% role buff more than anything else. That's what a lot of people fail to understand in these discussions. Even now, there's actually more people playing MCH compared to BRD and DNC at raid level nowadays, because at least their total contribution is within shooting distance of the others. The only reason they aren't already the undisputed dominant ranged class right now is because they have one of the steepest learning curves of all DPS in terms of their rotation.

Give MCH more damage without buffing BRD and DNC's total contribution accordingly, and you get what today's Summoner is doing to the other two casters without the party utility.

Well RDM also beats Dragoon in E6S and is one of the top 4-5 jobs in E8S right now. Not sure what that's got to do with phys ranged.

The argument is saying that it's ironic that casters are allowed to have so much more damage compared to the melee while simultaneously arguing in the same breath that it's okay for ranged to be as behind as they are, when they are also ranged to some respect (not to mention the raise utility that Summoner especially has). It's not like AoEs are being dropped on casters 24/7 like some people are behaving in these discussions.

[Bright-Flower]

Literally the only reason MCH is as weak as it is in comparison to the other roles is because BRD and DNC exist. The developers cannot give MCH the personal damage to actually be worthy of the selfish DPS title without resulting in them becoming the meta ranged job that gets BRDs and DNCs kicked from statics.

The real issue isn't that BRD and DNC's personal damage is low anyway, it's that their total contribution is still low even after their utility and buffs to their party members are taken into account. Again, there's a reason why there are people that literally argue that you only bring a ranged for the 1% role buff more than anything else. That's what a lot of people fail to understand in these discussions. Even now, there's actually more people playing MCH compared to BRD and DNC at raid level nowadays, because at least their total contribution is within shooting distance of the others. The only reason they aren't already the undisputed dominant ranged class right now is because they have one of the steepest learning curves of all DPS in terms of their rotation.

I see what you did there.

[Crushnight]

Range has no positionals, and no down time. You can cast your attacks at any range, and do so while moving.

Not true but theoretically you should never be that far away from boss on any ranged.

If mch mains could enlighten me on whether they use flamethrower or not (my guess not outside very specific circumstances) if they do theres a melee range attack.

Dnc however has 3 different ranges it needs to learn for its attacks
1. The standard range one where it can be at max distance
2. Its dances range which are smaller than the base ranged one also being able to hit full party with technical/ party member with standard. (E7S can be a pain with the constant run back and forth if partner is on other add)
3. AoE skill range, this is melee, 2 are used for rotation on single target, the only reason dnc doesn't suffer from this is SE thankfully never bother putting in a get away from me for >20 secs mechanic.

Dnc has to be the most aware of their position on the battlefield out of all the physical ranged not just for heals but for their full dps too. Yet that is often overlooked because the devs have yet to exploit that weakness but it is there in plain sight.

[RyuDragnier]

If mch mains could enlighten me on whether they use flamethrower or not (my guess not outside very specific circumstances) if they do theres a melee range attack..

Not a MCH main, but from the way my friend said it, it seems you hit Flamethrower, then use something else on GCD. The damage is too low to keep using it over other moves or AoEs.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I use Flamethrower on trash pulls in dungeons just to give my fingers a few seconds to rest. I have bad joints, it helps a little.

In terms of optimizing damage, though, it's not worth much. In huge pulls, it might just edge out Spread Shot for part of the duration, but even then, you're still gonna be canceling it early, even if an enemy AoE doesn't chase you out of it anyway.

[grinkdaboy]

phys ranged has low dps because

a) lack of positionals
b) 100% uptime (unless you're out of range)
c) can both DPS and do mechanics (leads back into b)
d) utility
e) can move while attacking

[Miziliti]

phys ranged has low dps because

a) lack of positionals
b) 100% uptime (unless you're out of range)
c) can both DPS and do mechanics (leads back into b)
d) utility
e) can move while attacking

Jobs without cast bar aka tanks and melee DPS can all move while attacking as long as distance is allowed, and so they can handle melee range mechanics while attacking, which leads to 100% up time. It all depends on player skill.

[Ransom]

I understand the logic behind why Bard's dps is low. It just feels like they've gone a little bit too far. Not much, but a little. Especially since even a fully changed Apex Arrow is usually no stronger than a three stack pitch perfect, and yes, Apex Arrow is great for large groups, but we need something great for bosses.

[TalithaSolarien]

Can we please drop the "Utility" argument for ranged dps ? The so called utility (which is mostly a dps boost) they bring are also on other classes, like Trick Attack or Brotherhood. Yes we have shields but casters have Addle and melee Feint. The only unique skills are Natures Minne and Wardens Paeon on BRD and the only the could ever give you is 1 or 2 GCDs for your healers to do more damage. IMHO the whole "utility" is pretty much overrated, there is no real unique utility to the ranged dps.

[dinnertime]

phys ranged has low dps because

a) lack of positionals
b) 100% uptime (unless you're out of range)
c) can both DPS and do mechanics (leads back into b)
d) utility
e) can move while attacking

*Laughs in SMN*