Physical range dps damage?

[Miziliti]

phys ranged has low dps because

a) lack of positionals
b) 100% uptime (unless you're out of range)
c) can both DPS and do mechanics (leads back into b)
d) utility
e) can move while attacking

Jobs without cast bar aka tanks and melee DPS can all move while attacking as long as distance is allowed, and so they can handle melee range mechanics while attacking, which leads to 100% up time. It all depends on player skill.

[ReiMakoto]

phys ranged has low dps because

a) lack of positionals
b) 100% uptime (unless you're out of range)
c) can both DPS and do mechanics (leads back into b)
d) utility
e) can move while attacking

SMN has all of the above and is one of the highest dps in the game. even assuming that you cancel dwt immediatly every time you have 20 seconds of free mobility every min from egi assault and ruin 4. Then you have the 20 odd seconds of firebird trance on top of that every other min. Then you could also not choose to cancel dwt immediatly and thats only an rdps loss when devotion is up so thats even more mobility. Then on top of all of that if you run out of absolutely everything, you still have ruin 2 which is a drop in the bucket in terms of a dps loss. SMN also has addle which is stupidly useful as pretty much all raidwides are magic damage which is only slightly worse than tactician on fights where the boss goes invuln, and better than tactician on bosses where the boss is targetable all the time because addle gets more uses out of a fight.

So comparing SMN to MCH:
1. Both mobile with very high uptime (Potentially no damage loss due to movement)
2. Both have raidwide mitigation
3. SMN has the ability to trade dps for extra survivability with titan
4. SMN also has a raidbuff which even without it they do more than mch so its just extra damage
5. SMN does more damage overall
6. SMN has a raise
7. SMN has an aoe regen (mostly fluff but still there)

[EtherRose]

SNIP

Doesn't matter. SMN still has cast times. Also as i stated in a previous comment - Some other jobs/classes will always be better than others. Again, standard knowledge for every game. And there are a few factors for why.

1. MCH in terms of difficulty is basically very low. MCH is not hard to play.
2. SMN requires knowledge of rotations and difficulty is higher than MCH to upkeep damage.
3. Magic weapons have higher damage because casters have cast times.

And lastly....this is in tandem with why i said some other jobs/classes will be better than others. If we were to imply a little bit of "Game Logic" of jobs here, you're comparing a high-tier magic caster "Summoner" which shares a branch with "Scholar" to a job with a gun.

[Ransom]

I understand the logic behind why Bard's dps is low. It just feels like they've gone a little bit too far. Not much, but a little. Especially since even a fully changed Apex Arrow is usually no stronger than a three stack pitch perfect, and yes, Apex Arrow is great for large groups, but we need something great for bosses.

[TalithaSolarien]

Can we please drop the "Utility" argument for ranged dps ? The so called utility (which is mostly a dps boost) they bring are also on other classes, like Trick Attack or Brotherhood. Yes we have shields but casters have Addle and melee Feint. The only unique skills are Natures Minne and Wardens Paeon on BRD and the only the could ever give you is 1 or 2 GCDs for your healers to do more damage. IMHO the whole "utility" is pretty much overrated, there is no real unique utility to the ranged dps.

[dinnertime]

phys ranged has low dps because

a) lack of positionals
b) 100% uptime (unless you're out of range)
c) can both DPS and do mechanics (leads back into b)
d) utility
e) can move while attacking

*Laughs in SMN*

[Connor]

snip

See this is what’s confusing me about the whole ‘ranged dps value’ thing.

All ranged must have the very bottom tier dps of all damage dealers to compensate for their utility and mobility, which is totally fair (besides the fact the utility is barely a draw itself lol).

But then, there’s Summoner.

It has way high dps, it can raise, it has nigh-infinite mobility like any ranged, it has a damage buff, it has an attack debuff, a self-buff for defense (not that you’d want to really have Titan out lol), hell it even has party-wide regen.

Why does ranged have to be the worst dps with the worst utility, when Summoners to have it all and more.

Idk I don’t get why Summoner is allowed to be what’s essentially a support job, except with great dps and high utility, but then the actual role that’s supposed to be ‘support’ can’t have any of those things?

I’m not saying Summoner should be nerfed or anything because that wouldn’t be fair on them, but why can’t ranged have equivalent levels of utility? Would Bard really become a very top dps of them all if it had a regen? If Dancers had raise? Machinists using debuffs?

Idk I guess what I’m saying is, why are these things ‘super-OP’ on ranged, but they’re totally fine when they’re on a caster?

[dinnertime]

Why does ranged have to be the worst dps with the worst utility, when Summoners to have it all and more.

Idk I don’t get why Summoner is allowed to be what’s essentially a support job, except with great dps and high utility, but then the actual role that’s supposed to be ‘support’ can’t have any of those things?

I’m not saying Summoner should be nerfed or anything because that wouldn’t be fair on them, but why can’t ranged have equivalent levels of utility? Would Bard really become a very top dps of them all if it had a regen? If Dancers had raise? Machinists using debuffs?

Idk I guess what I’m saying is, why are these things ‘super-OP’ on ranged, but they’re totally fine when they’re on a caster?

You have to realize that:

SMN's raidwide buff Devotion has the longest cooldown out of all the buffs in the game.
The SMN regen, Everlasting Flight, is not something we could use whenever we want it to. It's tied to Demi-Phoenix and it's never timed for moments where people need healing.
The debuff, Addle, is essentially the same as Troubadour, Tactician and Shield Samba.

Resurrection is probably the most notable support utility SMN has that has made countless debates, but it's still a niche, barely utilized ability. Also Titan-Egi's shield is useful and all but most of the time you'd rather use the other two Egi.

Its support utilities cannot really be compared to most of the physical ranged, because physical ranged does it better and do it more constantly. Still, I agree that physical range definitely needs a lift.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Resurrection is probably the most notable support utility SMN has that has made countless debates, but it's still a niche, barely utilized ability.

And yet whenever someone talks about buffing Red Mage, they get Verraise thrown in their face.....

[dinnertime]

And yet whenever someone talks about buffing Red Mage, they get Verraise thrown in their face.....

Doesn't surprise me. A lot of people just don't know what they're talking about, to put it nicely. Red Mage's support abilities like Verraise and Vercure were only useful in progression so it's also barely utilized everywhere else, and it's detrimental to their DPS since it's a GCD and not an oGCD/passive support ability.

Red Mage is in a better spot now, but whenever I saw those arguments, it never held any weight.