Physical range dps damage?

[VenKitsune]

MCH definately needs some buffs. It has the same utility almost as SAM or BLM and yet as far as im aware RDM does more damage than it.

Let me say that again - Red mage does more damage than machinist, and regardless of movement too. People will use the excuse of "Oh well we can move and shoot at the same time" but honestly, that's just a benefit of the role and shouldn't be justification of why they're currently AS weak as they currently are, especially when you consider most downtime in fights these days is forced like in phase transitions when the boss goes untargetable etc.

[Frosthaven]

MCH definately needs some buffs. It has the same utility almost as SAM or BLM and yet as far as im aware RDM does more damage than it.

Let me say that again - Red mage does more damage than machinist, and regardless of movement too. People will use the excuse of "Oh well we can move and shoot at the same time" but honestly, that's just a benefit of the role and shouldn't be justification of why they're currently AS weak as they currently are, especially when you consider most downtime in fights these days is forced like in phase transitions when the boss goes untargetable etc.

For what it's worth I too think the balance is off in regard to ranged physical - machinist specifically - was just refuting the notion that utility didn't have value against dps numbers

[SaitoHikari]

MCH definately needs some buffs. It has the same utility almost as SAM or BLM and yet as far as im aware RDM does more damage than it.

Let me say that again - Red mage does more damage than machinist, and regardless of movement too. People will use the excuse of "Oh well we can move and shoot at the same time" but honestly, that's just a benefit of the role and shouldn't be justification of why they're currently AS weak as they currently are, especially when you consider most downtime in fights these days is forced like in phase transitions when the boss goes untargetable etc.

Literally the only reason MCH is as weak as it is in comparison to the other roles is because BRD and DNC exist. The developers cannot give MCH the personal damage to actually be worthy of the selfish DPS title without resulting in them becoming the meta ranged job that gets BRDs and DNCs kicked from statics.

The real issue isn't that BRD and DNC's personal damage is low anyway, it's that their total contribution is still low even after their utility and buffs to their party members are taken into account. Again, there's a reason why there are people that literally argue that you only bring a ranged for the 1% role buff more than anything else. That's what a lot of people fail to understand in these discussions. Even now, there's actually more people playing MCH compared to BRD and DNC at raid level nowadays, because at least their total contribution is within shooting distance of the others. The only reason they aren't already the undisputed dominant ranged class right now is because they have one of the steepest learning curves of all DPS in terms of their rotation.

Give MCH more damage without buffing BRD and DNC's total contribution accordingly, and you get what today's Summoner is doing to the other two casters without the party utility.

Well RDM also beats Dragoon in E6S and is one of the top 4-5 jobs in E8S right now. Not sure what that's got to do with phys ranged.

The argument is saying that it's ironic that casters are allowed to have so much more damage compared to the melee while simultaneously arguing in the same breath that it's okay for ranged to be as behind as they are, when they are also ranged to some respect (not to mention the raise utility that Summoner especially has). It's not like AoEs are being dropped on casters 24/7 like some people are behaving in these discussions.

[Bright-Flower]

Literally the only reason MCH is as weak as it is in comparison to the other roles is because BRD and DNC exist. The developers cannot give MCH the personal damage to actually be worthy of the selfish DPS title without resulting in them becoming the meta ranged job that gets BRDs and DNCs kicked from statics.

The real issue isn't that BRD and DNC's personal damage is low anyway, it's that their total contribution is still low even after their utility and buffs to their party members are taken into account. Again, there's a reason why there are people that literally argue that you only bring a ranged for the 1% role buff more than anything else. That's what a lot of people fail to understand in these discussions. Even now, there's actually more people playing MCH compared to BRD and DNC at raid level nowadays, because at least their total contribution is within shooting distance of the others. The only reason they aren't already the undisputed dominant ranged class right now is because they have one of the steepest learning curves of all DPS in terms of their rotation.

I see what you did there.

[Esmoire]

Also, while we are talking ranged physical, what's the deal with Tactician, Troubadour, and Shield Samba? What's the deal with ranged DPS having a 10% reduction that doesn't stack with the other two abilities? I get the theory of not letting stuff stack in games in general, but is that necessary here? When tanks and healers have mitigation or absorption stuff that stacks as long as it's not the same classification? Are they afraid of people going with all three ranged physicals and all of them doing their mitigation skills at once? Why not just make them a shared role action if they are all going to be basically the same thing? Bard having party buffs makes sense and I can see dancers protecting their partner but why does MCH have it? What about ranged physical DPS screams "group damage reduction"? Is it because they don't have Feint and Addle?

WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN!?

... Footsteps. The FFXIV developers are coming. I have asked too many questions. I must go.

[Ryaze]

Also, while we are talking ranged physical, what's the deal with Tactician, Troubadour, and Shield Samba? What's the deal with ranged DPS having a 10% reduction that doesn't stack with the other two abilities? I get the theory of not letting stuff stack in games in general, but is that necessary here? When tanks and healers have mitigation or absorption stuff that stacks as long as it's not the same classification? Are they afraid of people going with all three ranged physicals and all of them doing their mitigation skills at once? Why not just make them a shared role action if they are all going to be basically the same thing? Bard having party buffs makes sense and I can see dancers protecting their partner but why does MCH have it? What about ranged physical DPS screams "group damage reduction"? Is it because they don't have Feint and Addle?

WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN!?

... Footsteps. The FFXIV developers are coming. I have asked too many questions. I must go.

No it's because they're all essentially the same spell, but instead of making a single role action spell that is shared among all three jobs they decided to rename the same spell for each job, presumably for "flavor". That's like asking why Addle doesn't stack with Addle. It's the same exact spell. It's the ranged physical version of Addle and Feint but they split it into separate spells for god knows why. The 10% damage reduction is fine and is often used in conjunction with other support spells/damage reduction spells. No conspiracy, no hate on ranged physical. Just unnecessary splitting of the same spell.

[LalaRu]

Shouldn't all dps be fighting for top parse?

No.

Some bonuses, as party utility or your own mobility, comes with a price.

You may argue how much good this has been balanced but no, jobs are not meant to be at same level about their overall/average dps output.

[Flay_wind]

No.

Some bonuses, as party utility or your own mobility, comes with a price.

You may argue how much good this has been balanced but no, jobs are not meant to be at same level about their overall/average dps output.

*Pouring oil on the fire* And yet SMN exists.

[Razard]

*Pouring oil on the fire* And yet SMN exists.

As slightly overtuned as SMN is. Please stop purpetuating the absolute lie that SMN's have complete mobility without drawbacks. It's disingenuous to parrot this meme.

Also look at 2.0 team comps and you'll see why they are afraid to buff ranged.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

As slightly overtuned as SMN is. Please stop purpetuating the absolute lie that SMN's have absolute mobility without drawbacks. It's disingenuous to parrot this meme.

Also look at 2.0 team comps and you'll see why they are afraid to buff ranged.

What, you don't want drg 3xbrd or drg NIN brd brd back again?