Feedback on Expert Recipes:

[Dan4077]

I wouldn't call this RNG crafting. If you have a rigid rotation and is just ranting about how the random conditions don't fall into the right places of your rotation, then I don't think we're on the same page at all.


There are many differences between raids and crafting. In fact, the differences are way more than similarities. But the similarities do exist. In raids, you can't ignore mechanics. And similarly, in crafting, you're NOT supposed to ignore conditions. However, in raids, you can predict what mechanics is coming most of the times. In crafting, by contrast, you can't. And you have to work your rotations around it.

I do wonder if they should add something to the conditions so that there is a bit of predicting involved.


Well, we're talking about "normal" now. We've had this "norm" for way too long, and this "normal crafting" which is way too easy is boring as hell. And NO you cant PREDICT it just because you happen to not get a proc long enough and even IF you do WHAT ONE there is like 4 that you can get! You are trying to defend it saying well uh its not really rng but it also is rng but its not cause you can kinda predict it but you cant really predict it. Cmon lol


I am not sure what you mean since there's NO hard earned material and gil at all from all these raw mats for expert recipes. You can simply buy them off the MB at a ridiculously low price.



I mean, seriously? Who wants RL crafting here? Welcome to Final Fantasy, where fishes fly in air...


Right. These recipes are actually fine and fun. The new conditions are enjoyable (unless you're one of those who prefer to ignore conditions). The rewards are crap though.

The fact that you think it is not RNG is ridiculous. It is RNG all the way good excellent sturdy so on so on, Is RNG. What are you talking about lol. And apparently a lot of people want irl crafting cause because making an item based on if you get stupid procs is downright STUPID. Look at the prices barely anyone is touching this garbage and if it did have a high reward and the prices werent like 100 gil who would have the money to toss away on what you like to try to say is not RNG. If there is no rhyme or reason to something and its based on chance alone it is RNG lmao like where did you get this idea its NOT rng is just crazy.

Plus I dont have a rotation on it cause its impossible to have a rotation on random proc buffs, with an item almost 3x higher difficult rating then neo gear.

[MilkAndChoco]

The fact that you think it is not RNG is ridiculous. It is RNG all the way good excellent sturdy so on so on, Is RNG. What are you talking about lol. And apparently a lot of people want irl crafting cause because making an item based on if you get stupid procs is downright STUPID. Look at the prices barely anyone is touching this garbage and if it did have a high reward and the prices werent like 100 gil who would have the money to toss away on what you like to try to say is not RNG. If there is no rhyme or reason to something and its based on chance alone it is RNG lmao like where did you get this idea its NOT rng is just crazy.

Plus I dont have a rotation on it cause its impossible to have a rotation on random proc buffs, with an item almost 3x higher difficult rating then neo gear.

wow salty much lol chill out

[Dan4077]

wow salty much lol chill out

.Its called criticism not salt. Just because you do not like something doesn't automatically equate to salt. That is a dumb response.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

The fact that you think it is not RNG is ridiculous. It is RNG all the way good excellent sturdy so on so on, Is RNG. What are you talking about lol. And apparently a lot of people want irl crafting cause because making an item based on if you get stupid procs is downright STUPID. Look at the prices barely anyone is touching this garbage and if it did have a high reward and the prices werent like 100 gil who would have the money to toss away on what you like to try to say is not RNG. If there is no rhyme or reason to something and its based on chance alone it is RNG lmao like where did you get this idea its NOT rng is just crazy.

Plus I dont have a rotation on it cause its impossible to have a rotation on random proc buffs, with an item almost 3x higher difficult rating then neo gear.

I didn't say this is not RNG-involved. RNG is very much involved. Without RNG on conditions, you can't handle a "harder recipe", as you will have no means to HQ it once IQ11 Byregot fails you. But I don't think it's fair to call it "RNG crafting either", as it clearly differs from pressing a button, and it either succeeds or fails.

Think this way, if you have a recipe that goes 100% as long as you have the right rotation, then it's just a pure brainless boring grind. Here, with these recipes, you actually need to use your head a little. If you think this is all base on chance alone, then I think you will likely fail 9/10 times.

However, to be fair, after doing more of it, I do think it's a bit RNG-heavy... to the point that we're going back to the ARR Hasty Touching spam. So it was a little disappointing on that sense.

But all in all, we did get what we asked for, which are harder recipes, and they are not impossible to do either. To be fair and square, I have laid out my attempts so far on these Expert Recipes for everyone to analyze:

3943 (basically failed)
4161 (basically failed)
4912
botched!
5093
-----> upgraded gear... from using i430 mainhand, hat, gloves and boots to all i460 left gear and i470 mainhand.
5475
6486
999 (pre-mature completion mistake)
6022
6486 (max quality)
6339
5477
5472
6486 (max quality)
6322
6486 (max quality)
6335
6002
5653
3798 (failed)
6486 (max quality)
6018
6486 (maxed quality)
6486 (maxed quality)
5856
4281 (failed)
6486 (maxed quality)
6486 (maxed quality)
6486 (maxed quality)
6310
6486 (maxed quality)
6486 (maxed quality)
6486 (maxed quality)
6220
6486 (maxed quality)

Firstly, I was using stupid i430 mainhand and some i430 gear, and I had 2/5 successes in my very early attempts when I was still not familiar with the new conditions. I think this is actually good. This means that the difficulty was high enough that it prompted me to upgrade my gear and to actually learn to utilize those conditions better.

Then, after upgrading my gear to i470 mainhand/offhand + all facet left gear, and after putting in more thoughts, I then have a pretty steady streak of either 5K+ or 6K+. Note that I'm not capable of maxing quality every single time. So I think the difficulty is fine-tuned to the right spot (despite we now have to go back to some nasty Hasty Touches).

Look at the prices barely anyone is touching this garbage and if it did have a high reward and the prices werent like 100 gil who would have the money to toss away on what you like to try to say is not RNG.

I never expected too many people to get this right. If everyone is jumping into Expert Recipe and doing it fine, then I will be the first one complaining about it. Sorry, I didn't sign up for Expert Recipes for gil. I'd rather be paying gil just to enjoy a good crafting game that picks on my brain a little. And btw, I'm actually glad that the mats are cheap like dirt on the marketboard. It saves me all the gathering time, and I can just focus on my crafting game.

[Kabooa]

They can't be macro'd.

You have to consider your actions - perhaps not every step, but with enough frequency that too many blind 5-step boost sprees will leave you at a bad time.

There is no negative condition, so the RNG chance to outright fail is low.

The conditions themselves are nearly lifted from the suggestions people have put into the crafting forum.

It's still accessible, but not worth it if you aren't able to consistently max it out.

It seems the only problem is that there's no enticing reward for people to do it.

Using a rough guestimation of the time it takes me to craft vs the time it would take to macro craft the next highest option, Experts give Ranking at about double to double+half efficiency and utilize about 1/20th the materials.

[Rath]

I agree with Kabooa. The system appears to work, but the current motivation to use these recipes over the lower tier alternative is not there.

There is no real cost to them, so no frustrating fails like gold cogs....(these are easier then cogs btw), but still not worth doing as the alternative gives the same potential reward.

Edit: I did a couple more. The time gets shorter the more familiar you get with them.

Also, my best results come from doubling IQ stacks early on. Never had a use for that skill before now.
After doing a couple of the lower tier....they can't compete with getting over 1200 points for a single maxed expert turn in. I went back and started doing these lol. After failing my very first 2 attempts, all have been successful. I will play around a bit more tomorrow and see if I can cement my method and tweak it a bit. 88 steps has been my worst and longest success and that is just too much for me.

[ElazulHP]

Expert recipes are pretty much rage inducing. I'm tilting pretty hard right now. Can't seem to get anything past 4k despite being fully melded with food. I am having terrible rng on the practice materials so i'm pretty hesitant to try on the real recipe and i'm not sure i'm going to bother with the lack of any decent rewards besides a title. Oh and the mount but that is 500k points on EVERY DoH/DoL... yeah that isn't happening lol...

I'll probably try again this weekend. Until then going to just mindlessly gather and craft the lower recipe for scripts.

[Rollout]

I think the idea behind Expert Recipes are neat, but I find the execution to be sorely lacking. The reason being because none of the materials can be HQ'd, so it's entirely reliant on luck, having to fish for the procs that you need in order to complete the craft with enough quality. I think I would find them more enjoyable if I didn't have to hope lady luck was on my side and just gathering some HQ materials to start off with decent quality.

[Nandrolone]

For people not happy about rng involvement:

There is really no other way they can make this crafting system seem “difficult” without the use of randomness. It’s just impossible. Plus, as much as they annoy us with casual things and over accessibility, I have to give them credit. They listened to hardcore players and (attempted) to make recipes hard.

Next step would be expert recipes rewards, and improving them to encourage more people to do it. As well as seeing if there is a way to make even more of these hardcore players happy. Because we have to remember, expert recipes weren’t really designed for the average crafter.

[Liam_Harper]

There is really no other way they can make this crafting system seem “difficult” without the use of randomness. It’s just impossible. Plus, as much as they annoy us with casual things and over accessibility, I have to give them credit. They listened to hardcore players and (attempted) to make recipes hard.

There's room for tweaks and improvement though. I think two culprits are the Centered Proc (still hefty rng) and how reliant you end up on the Pliant buff. Saving nearly 50 CP is massive. Centered could almost be buffed to 100%, though that's certainly up for discussion.
I also feel our toolkit is a little too small now, which lowers the potential for niche intelligent choices and pushes us towards a priority system, where certain abilities are just miles better.

It's a good system and a step in the right direction. The rewards are indeed awful though.