Ranged DPS, choose a weakness that would justify a buff

[Shurrikhan]

I don't necessarily agree the constraint has to be the removal of using mobility. If anything, the use of the mobility should be encouraged.

Think of it this way.

A Caster is -rewarded- for doing better. In terms of being a Caster, this generally boils down to minimizing movement during the best uptime phases, and abusing what they can during very long movement phases. That's their unique goal.

Ranged are currently not. If we consider the idea that they are currently lacking their ability to push farther due to a lack of real constraints, then our aim shouldn't be to uplift them and then shackle them, it should be to uplift them by them taking advantage of having no shackles.

We create a unique goal for them that utilizes their kit advantages, that by its nature extends their skillcap in each encounter.

Perfect mobility removes a skill-gap component, one which interacts well with fight designs. We can call it "restricting" mobility all we want, but without it there is no "optimizing mobility" unless fights are designed to require the most possible use of that perfect mobility, which would depend on either a far less mobile counterpart whose duties can somehow be absorbed atop one's own (would require very different designs) or optional but useful duties which only a hypermobile person could perform without significant uptime loss (again, requiring very different designs).

What, though, do we do with fights that don't have these newly obligatory mechanics/designs? Where does that gap in skill, and thereby perhaps deservedly performance, go?

Ultimately, why not have a much lighter form of mobility costs that casters face, such as was provided by Feint vs. Heavy Shot during the Bow Mage days? Then we can have greater parity regardless of the fight. Where the fight does not make use of hypermobility, Ranged aren't punished for having it. Where it does, Ranged reach parity in a more unique way.

[KDSilver]

Fair point, but is it really enough for him? That's the only party utility he has. That's not much for a range.
I've always seen range classes through party utility. I'm not into MCH or anything, but I was kinda disappointed for him to having only "that".

[Lastelli]

Fair point, but is it really enough for him? That's the only party utility he has. That's not much for a range.
I've always seen range classes through party utility. I'm not into MCH or anything, but I was kinda disappointed for him to having only "that".

Only that...
And much higher personal DPS than DNC/BRD to account for lower raid utility.

[Crushnight]

I'll take not allowing gcds while moving but to make it up to them I expect brd/dnc be equal Sam dps and mch to be defacto best dps since every other job would be allowed to use gcds while moving while range cannot and then enjoy the delicious salt that'll rain down from such an idea forcing melee and casters to deal with range mechanics.

At the same time enrages would be tuned upwards due to no longer having such a high deficit between range and other jobs.

[MPNZ]

BRD:

RgStk & Barrage: Would no longer grant 20% DPS increase and would merge with barrage procing RefuArrw & EmpArrw, adding 50pt to SV, and buffs EA & RA with barrage, 110% dmg, and critical hit for one action each.

Soul voice & MP: Will actually be resources and there will be raid party buffs, foei's requiem, and a miseries' end buff that would build Cost SV to activate and effect the entire party.

Song buffs: will aid the whole party. Haste, MP regen, 20 pt/one stack

New ugly arrow thing and the single target ugly arrow thing that's the same thing: needto do something besides being just two really boring redundancies.exchanging the dot buffs for a stacking dot that would increase SV would be a start.

Apex arrow: Change it's name. Remove it from GCD to oGCD. give it a reasonable set-price to use and not "all of it".


In actuality, It's about the feel of the impact of the job and how they feel to play, and not entirely in just DPS numbers or they will end up like Healers or PLD (until the party just dies). Even adding crowd control or returning wide volley would be enough, IMO. BRDs DPS is literally only a problem for Rangers, and raid contribution needs to increase as does the usefulness of SV

[Miziliti]

We already have the weakness currently which is shitty support abilities. DNC might be debatable, but technical step cd is too long. BRD and MCH on the other hand totally qualify. Removing resource support utility aka mp regen, shitty single digit buff on BRD, and slaps pitiful defense buff on MCH and call it a day. I thought the amount of support abilities wasn't enough to make them support role in StB already. Didn't expect it to be even less to the point of being laughable in expansion. My friend literally lol'd when he saw the single digit songs added in patch notes. No other job is less support-ish then the three in this role. Tanks and healers got party mitigation, melees got party buff and casters got party buff. Exceptions are SAM/BLM for no support ability, and DNC for having slightly better support abilities.

Also, op should mention how overgeared that DNC/BRD party is. Any trash party comp can be overcome by overgearing high ilvl gears. Without that info, nothing is valid since no evidence shows that double physical range is capable as alternative to double casters or 1 range 1caster comp in fresh week one.

I play physical range because there is no cast bar and melee positional. In HW although I get bow mage concept (and quit BRD) because you need to pull the string to shoot arrow, but what's that MCH doing there posing before firing his gun???

This expansion simplified all battle jobs in the game, I don't know why non-physical range people are crying about physical range being easy to play when the only difficulty left in combat encounter is doing boss mechanics correctly. Every job in this expansion is literally pressing 123(45) consistently while trying to not die. Most of the job complexity are almost gone compare to previous expansions.

Some non-physical range players opposing for range physical role getting buff is like saying they fear they would get replaced because they die all the time for being greedy by not moving in time and insist on finishing spell cast. Don't blame others for playing safe, blame yourself.

[Vendalwind]

...

I was among the Nins that hated it cause ibplayed with some pibg and mine was typically closer to 7 seconds haha. The pain of it tho wasnt just the movement, it is further aggravated by melee range. After completing tcj if the boss is outta range we cant always immediatly weave or connect our next gcd either if we arent smart. AND on top of that if you press a wrong or dbl mudra, or another button, or get forced to move you lose the ability. Casters upon having to cancel a cast never lose the ability to use a cast. Nins canceling tcj early on lose their strongest single ability and wont see it again for another 120 seconds Lack of mobility+positional+melee+lost resource on fail is what often made tcj a pain.

That being said i love how it is now. Learning how and what mechanics i can use it during optimally is always a fun part of the fight.

My point tho is (even tho i personally dont like the idea of immobilizing ranged in any way, except maybe MCH) is that in reality a 6 second rare standstill on a ranged class wouldnt be the the end of the world and isnt comparable to the problems tcj faced.

[Vendalwind]

Also... that still doesnt cover tcj interactions. There was also the caveat of delaying tcj often delayed trick back then and it reset our other mudra/ninjutsu resource. Old TCJ was probably the most difficult skill to use perfectly in the game in its terrible old version.

[Gruntler]

Here's a weakness:

Having to put up with melee complain about putting up with uptime issues and such, and in exchange, actually having some advantage over them in a fight once in a while, instead of having melee outdo them constantly in the hopes that ranged don't realize that 'melee should do more damage' is only a valid argument in the context of against a dummy.

[Vulcann]

i'm ok with the low damage IF they gave us (mch, bard, dancer) STRONG utility.

Dancer - Strong single target buffs

Bard - Strong group buffs and maybe a rez

Machinist - Strong long cooldown debuffs