Savage is way to hard nerf it please!

[Kraniel]

Sorry but this is a big no for my part.
I'm just about to clear E5S, and i didn't find it that difficult.
This goes for every other savage/extreme raid i've ever done in this game. The only fight that ever frustrated me was the Titan Extreme fight during ARR days, but even that was mostly because of my PCs performance issues during the fight, and not because of the actual difficulty.

But then again on JP servers people usually aren't very toxic in PF, and i was able to practice with the same group for an hour or so before we decided it was enough.
I can empathize with you for the toxicity, but difficulty shouldn't be toned down because there's some bad apples in the community.
Get some motivated people from PF or your LS/FC and you'll be fine.

[Colt47]

Sorry but this is a big no for my part.
I'm just about to clear E5S, and i didn't find it that difficult.
This goes for every other savage/extreme raid i've ever done in this game. The only fight that ever frustrated me was the Titan Extreme fight during ARR days, but even that was mostly because of my PCs performance issues during the fight, and not because of the actual difficulty.

But then again on JP servers people usually aren't very toxic in PF, and i was able to practice with the same group for an hour or so before we decided it was enough.
I can empathize with you for the toxicity, but difficulty shouldn't be toned down because there's some bad apples in the community.
Get some motivated people from PF or your LS/FC and you'll be fine.

The issue the OP is dealing with is the time they have to play the game and the condition of the players at that hour. Savage fights are best done when one is rested and in good condition: they do not work well for a worn out group of working class individuals in a late evening because a single mess up can break an entire fight. It's not until gear pushes past the hypothetical minimum level that people bypass the limitations from this. I've seen more than a fair share of people who have had 5+ nights of solid practice screw up over and over because of trying to do this on less than 6 hours of sleep and a 16 oz coffee.

The real crux of the issue is the content is branching outside of it's target audience due to the glamour. People want the dye applicable version of the eden armor and the weapon model to match. The only way to get that is to do the savage runs.

If the savage runs offered something more like a unique item for each area cleared, that would help separate the two crowds out. However, what the devs and company are scared of is that they wasted hours and hours of time building content to keep people in the game, only to have it fail to achieve the objective because it lacks any incentives. Case in point, the ONLY reason I'm even doing this is for dye applicable eden gear. I'd rather be doing just about anything else like Ishgard restoration or even just working on buying a house. I've literally never done savage content until this patch cycle.

[Vaer]

Case in point, the ONLY reason I'm even doing this is for dye applicable eden gear. I'd rather be doing just about anything else like Ishgard restoration or even just working on buying a house. I've literally never done savage content until this patch cycle.

I would personally wait until they unlock the restrictions then go farm it at that point if you're just after glamour. They're strict with the locking of chests at the beginning because they don't want to give max ilvl gear at a rapid pace. They eventually remove them where it won't matter who is in your group and the gear levels will make it easier to farm glamour. You'll just end up super frustrated trying to clear the entire thing if pugging Fulmination is driving you up the wall. Furor on the other hand just has backloaded mechanics. The first 3/4 of the fight is easy, mostly because they are showing you how each mechanic works at the beginning. The difficulty drastically increases at the end.

[Kraniel]

The issue the OP is dealing with is the time they have to play the game and the condition of the players at that hour. Savage fights are best done when one is rested and in good condition: they do not work well for a worn out group of working class individuals in a late evening because a single mess up can break an entire fight. It's not until gear pushes past the hypothetical minimum level that people bypass the limitations from this. I've seen more than a fair share of people who have had 5+ nights of solid practice screw up over and over because of trying to do this on less than 6 hours of sleep and a 16 oz coffee.

The real crux of the issue is the content is branching outside of it's target audience due to the glamour. People want the dye applicable version of the eden armor and the weapon model to match. The only way to get that is to do the savage runs.

If the savage runs offered something more like a unique item for each area cleared, that would help separate the two crowds out. However, what the devs and company are scared of is that they wasted hours and hours of time building content to keep people in the game, only to have it fail to achieve the objective because it lacks any incentives. Case in point, the ONLY reason I'm even doing this is for dye applicable eden gear. I'd rather be doing just about anything else like Ishgard restoration or even just working on buying a house. I've literally never done savage content until this patch cycle.

I can totally get behind your argument regarding dyeable equipment being only obtainable through Savage. I actually do think it's a pretty big design flaw, since many casual players want to be able to use them in glamours, and they can't.
I myself adore the Eden's Gate healer armor, but just when i was about to get into savage mode, 5.2 dropped and people pretty much stopped grinding for the old stuff.

I'm a bit of both worlds : I do want the glamour, but that's not why i do Savage. I only do Savage for the challenge and for better gear.
Hence, i really don't think that locking dyeable versions of the raid equipment behind Savage was a good decision.
Obviously some people will disagree with this, but in my opinion, clearing Savage itself and getting higher iLvl gear is already enough of a reward for hardcore players. And then maybe add a bit of an aura on the raid weapon so that they can parade in town with it and show to everyone what they achieved.

Buuuuuut ... then, isn't this more of a reward issue, rather than a difficulty issue ?

[Cirque-it]

Buuuuuut ... then, isn't this more of a reward issue, rather than a difficulty issue ?

Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

[Liam_Harper]

Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

To be fair though, all the Savage players are getting is early access. Then you get Echo, better ilv and it gets progressively easier and easier. None of the rewards or cut-scenes are removed.

High ilv gear is a surprisingly minor reward for endgame players. All it really does is give you a stepping stone to E8, then let you kill the same Savage bosses you already beat a little faster. The majority of other content is synched and Normal/EX can be steamrolled with basic Eden or crafted. Since parses and meters are a big no, you don't even get to show off big numbers, very few people will notice or care.

The idea of a "Duty-Practice" mode is a good one but hard to implement. If the mechanics were forgiving and just dealt 50%, most groups would ignore them and heal through. Perhaps a system where you failed the clear if you got hit by a set number of avoidable mechanics. The practice mode could also give explanations, tips or some strats as you go (since we all just watch guides anyway and modern encounters are designed with the assumption that the regular player has guides available), but in that case should only be released a few weeks in, so the world first and hardcore groups have the fun of figuring it out. We could additionally get a Dungeon Journal like WoW got, that lists each boss along with every mechanic and what it does and a short run-down for each role.

[Rilifane]

Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

You're not locked out of the glamour rewards, you will just get them a little later if you're not up for clearing it right away. And I haven't noticed any difference in the Eden normal and Eden savage cutscenes, so glamour is really all that is left. Lots of people don't clear ex trials when they come out and farm mounts later.
Nerfing savage so people who don't care about savage itself and just do it for glamour is not the way to go as they can easily get it at a later date. Echo/ higher ilvl and you steamroll the bosses and skip the most annoying mechanics.

Any sort of practice mode that is a more forgiving version of the actual fight will lead to people learning and playing it differently. If a one shot is nerfed to only bringing you to half HP, I guarantee you that a lot of practice parties will just heal through and not remind themselves that in the actual fight, that player would've died. Path of least resistance and all that.
The best way to practice a fight is to actually play the fight. There are countless practice parties, some blind, some want guide exp, some practice very specific mechanics. You can work your way up if you absolutely want that glamour now.

What I'm all for is a smoother increase in difficulty. Ruby ex is so laughably easy that you can kill it with numerous deaths. The healing requirement is low enough that you saw solo heal parties pop up pretty quickly. You don't need all 8 players for the fight, even meteors can be played with as little as 6 if everyone runs out asap after Dalamud has fallen and during the entire first phase, there is not a single mechanic that requires everyone alive. You survive stack marks with three people, two if you have mitigation up.
It doesn't really prepare you for savage and that's a shame.