Savage is way to hard nerf it please!

[Liam_Harper]

Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

To be fair though, all the Savage players are getting is early access. Then you get Echo, better ilv and it gets progressively easier and easier. None of the rewards or cut-scenes are removed.

High ilv gear is a surprisingly minor reward for endgame players. All it really does is give you a stepping stone to E8, then let you kill the same Savage bosses you already beat a little faster. The majority of other content is synched and Normal/EX can be steamrolled with basic Eden or crafted. Since parses and meters are a big no, you don't even get to show off big numbers, very few people will notice or care.

The idea of a "Duty-Practice" mode is a good one but hard to implement. If the mechanics were forgiving and just dealt 50%, most groups would ignore them and heal through. Perhaps a system where you failed the clear if you got hit by a set number of avoidable mechanics. The practice mode could also give explanations, tips or some strats as you go (since we all just watch guides anyway and modern encounters are designed with the assumption that the regular player has guides available), but in that case should only be released a few weeks in, so the world first and hardcore groups have the fun of figuring it out. We could additionally get a Dungeon Journal like WoW got, that lists each boss along with every mechanic and what it does and a short run-down for each role.

[KageTokage]

I feel like having more fights with mechanics that are not immediately lethal but instead apply Damage Down debuffs to make beating the enrage tougher/impossible would be more intuitive then having vague instakill puzzles that are almost guaranteed to cause a wipe the first few times around.

It honestly feels a bit like artificial difficulty to have to trial and error your way through a lot of mechanics step by step before you finally pass them; especially if they happen towards the very end of an encounter.

As previously mentioned, WoW has its dungeon journal to explain what each mechanic does in advance so you can actually have a vague gameplan before you go into a fight as opposed to having to reach a new mechanic and immediately wipe due to having no clue as to what it does until you've had a chance to check all of the debuff tooltips and perhaps view a video feedback to potentially gauge why/how everyone exploded.

The devs seem to thrive on this type of encounter design, though, considering the "surprise" they included in both UwU and TEA that forced people to basically rethink the entire fight and a certain mechanic respectively.

[Rilifane]

Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

You're not locked out of the glamour rewards, you will just get them a little later if you're not up for clearing it right away. And I haven't noticed any difference in the Eden normal and Eden savage cutscenes, so glamour is really all that is left. Lots of people don't clear ex trials when they come out and farm mounts later.
Nerfing savage so people who don't care about savage itself and just do it for glamour is not the way to go as they can easily get it at a later date. Echo/ higher ilvl and you steamroll the bosses and skip the most annoying mechanics.

Any sort of practice mode that is a more forgiving version of the actual fight will lead to people learning and playing it differently. If a one shot is nerfed to only bringing you to half HP, I guarantee you that a lot of practice parties will just heal through and not remind themselves that in the actual fight, that player would've died. Path of least resistance and all that.
The best way to practice a fight is to actually play the fight. There are countless practice parties, some blind, some want guide exp, some practice very specific mechanics. You can work your way up if you absolutely want that glamour now.

What I'm all for is a smoother increase in difficulty. Ruby ex is so laughably easy that you can kill it with numerous deaths. The healing requirement is low enough that you saw solo heal parties pop up pretty quickly. You don't need all 8 players for the fight, even meteors can be played with as little as 6 if everyone runs out asap after Dalamud has fallen and during the entire first phase, there is not a single mechanic that requires everyone alive. You survive stack marks with three people, two if you have mitigation up.
It doesn't really prepare you for savage and that's a shame.

[Makeda]

If a raid is impossible to clear using its party finder mechanic, its too hard for an MMO in my opinion.

Eden Savage 5 is WAY to hard for an MMO.

Eden Savage 5 is NOT WoW LFR.

It's whatever comes AFTER WoW Heroic raid tier. I forget what that was called...

(Eden Normal 5 is equiv to WoW Heroic - we see it as super easy, but it's got more mechanics than a WoW Heroic raid).

[Cirque-it]

I feel like having more fights with mechanics that are not immediately lethal but instead apply Damage Down debuffs to make beating the enrage tougher/impossible would be more intuitive then having vague instakill puzzles that are almost guaranteed to cause a wipe the first few times around.

It honestly feels a bit like artificial difficulty to have to trial and error your way through a lot of mechanics step by step before you finally pass them; especially if they happen towards the very end of an encounter.

As previously mentioned, WoW has its dungeon journal to explain what each mechanic does in advance so you can actually have a vague gameplan before you go into a fight as opposed to having to reach a new mechanic and immediately wipe due to having no clue as to what it does until you've had a chance to check all of the debuff tooltips and perhaps view a video feedback to potentially gauge why/how everyone exploded.

The devs seem to thrive on this type of encounter design, though, considering the "surprise" they included in both UwU and TEA that forced people to basically rethink the entire fight and a certain mechanic respectively.

Agree with all this! <3

[FoxyAreku]

Join a static like literally everyone else who is serious about progressing in this game. Not difficult.

[Eli85]

Join a static like literally everyone else who is serious about progressing in this game. Not difficult.

I don't agree that savage is way too hard, but this sentiment, right here, is not helpful and not informed. Joining a static is not like flipping a light switch. It's incredibly hard to find a static where you will see progress pull to pull, you can tolerate (never mind like) every member, and has a schedule that works for you. You can find one of these items easily, but all three? It's not the easiest thing in the world.

Thus why "join a static" is not helpful or informed advice.

[Vahlnir]

I don't agree that savage is way too hard, but this sentiment, right here, is not helpful and not informed. Joining a static is not like flipping a light switch. It's incredibly hard to find a static where you will see progress pull to pull, you can tolerate (never mind like) every member, and has a schedule that works for you. You can find one of these items easily, but all three? It's not the easiest thing in the world.

Thus why "join a static" is not helpful or informed advice.

If you can manage it, it is good advice. However, a lot of people like myself aren't interested in adhering to a schedule. I used to raid a lot in WoW during WotLK and Cata. It was fun, and I enjoyed some of the social aspect, but my raiding days have long since passed me by. If it is something I can't progress on my own terms then I simply don't take part. Extreme primals and the like are fine for me though. But even those I don't do like I once did. I usually manage to do one or 2 during an expansion cycle since HW. I have yet to see one that makes me want to do it in Shadowbringers, but hopefully that time will come.

[Melichoir]

Savage only requires 2 things of you - Know your class mechanics, and memorize the fight choreography. Thats it. Admittedly that is an over simplification in some regards, but the reality is that anyone can clear all the savage tiers, and all it takes is time and practice and flexibility in your thinking. What kills most people is they either panic out the gate, or they make a mistake for some reason and then panic, and that just snowballs.

E5S isnt a difficult fight. What people dont like isnt how much there is to learn, its more about the simple fact that mistakes are very punishing. You screw up the 14 rods thing (drawing a blank on name atm), thats gonna typically be a wipe. Is the mechanic itself all that hard though? No. Make sure youve gotten an orb. If youre not MT, find which side has adds, go opposite side, then find your stick and stand there. Thats it. Nothing absurdly complicated. What Ive seen people do? Panic, get greedy, not have an orb, or be out of position and miss their stick. All these things can be easily compensated for and fixed. It's not a brain buster to do, it just requires you to do it. Dont be greedy. Watch your position, stay in control and mechanic is done. Chain lightning is the same. Triangle strat? Make sure theres 3 of you, you know the order to pass it to, and make sure youre farther away from the guy youre not supposed to pass it to. Dont run up and hug a dude, Just get modestly close so you can catch/pass the CL without getting clipped. Stay in control and dont panic and youre done pretty quickly.

Cliche and mean as "Git Gud" can be, this literally is a case of get good. Memorize the fight, learn your class so you can do optimal dps adn fulfill your roll, get clears. That simple. And before someone says "Well we have to do enough DPS to down the boss" or something there of, if you havent even seen enrage cause you die to mechanics, then the "We need more DPS" should not even be on your radar. When you can get to enrages fairly frequently with few or no deaths, then you can start saying "It's a DPS issue". But dont make excuses for doing mechanics poorly and dying. Cause the bar right now to get the DPS to clear something like e5s is incredibly low so long as youve been getting Allegory gear.

[Abelisk]

Savage isn't hard really. Just watch video guides, note strat differences, know how to perform your role well, and avoid as much damage as possible and you should be set.