SCH needs help

[Brandedblade]

its not better. it costs you too much damage to be good sorry i just disagree. its simply "okay" and will stay in the same spot its been in since STOrmblood its rarely used because its not good in most situations theres just always a better option.



That isnt HPs that is healing which includes shielding. Overheal wouldnt be that huge of a difference in a 17 minute fight. Also yes scholar for every single patch in every expansion until shadowbringers was the king of healing done and now its not so im not sure where you're getting that from lol the fairy was extremely broken.

Yeah, your arguement was invalid the moment you said its staying in the same spot it was in stormblood. Even if the mitigation goes to waste its 600 potency every 30 seconds at only a small potency cost. Even if the heal goes to waste its group mitigation available every 30 seconds at only a small potency cost.

Which again, if sacred soil does enough healing/mitigation to prevent the cohealer from having to pop a gcd heal, then it made up for up to double the potency loss of not using the energy Drain. This fact also applies to excog and Indom if they arent used with Recitation. Just because there's free mitigation from other classes doesn't inherently nerf the value of sacred soil, infact it can stack with the mitigation AND heal the party.

Plus you keep forgetting that every Aetherflow heal has an additional 375ish single target heal and/or 225ish aoe.

[Whichi]

Yeah, your arguement was invalid the moment you said its staying in the same spot it was in stormblood. Even if the mitigation goes to waste its 600 potency every 30 seconds at only a small potency cost. Even if the heal goes to waste its group mitigation available every 30 seconds at only a small potency cost.

Which again, if sacred soil does enough healing/mitigation to prevent the cohealer from having to pop a gcd heal, then it made up for up to double the potency loss of not using the energy Drain. This fact also applies to excog and Indom if they arent used with Recitation. Just because there's free mitigation from other classes doesn't inherently nerf the value of sacred soil, infact it can stack with the mitigation AND heal the party.

Plus you keep forgetting that every Aetherflow heal has an additional 375ish single target heal and/or 225ish aoe.

Im not forgetting anything energy drain also applys to faerie gauge not just healing actons.. Plus my point saying that its going to stay in the same spot as stormblood means that it was rarely used. The point is that it is not NEEDED theres always something else that will get the job done better. Also you will RARELY get every player to get all ticks of soil for the full 600 potency or there will be overheal because you want to mitigate something. The point is anytime you think you can use "sacred soil" The reality is that there is a better cheaper option that isnt sacred soil. Lilys star any astro off gcd recitation abilites fairy skills. Sacred soil is just not needed. Even when i run shiva SAVAGE the hardest current fight as SCH i never use any atherflow healing(aside from recitation indoms or excogs) because its not really needed. its just extra and totally wasteful causing you to lose damage in most scenarios.

Which again, if sacred soil does enough healing/mitigation to prevent the cohealer from having to pop a gcd heal, then it made up for up to double the potency loss of not using the energy Drain. .

it's not double the potency lost Energy drain is 150 potency glare the absolute highest healer offensive GCD is 300 so no its not "more thandouble" its exactly half. and since energy drain is an OFF gcd its actually an even bigger deal



I'm not even saying sacred soil is like the worst thing ever or something. I HONESTLY believe that soil is fine as is its a very niche ability that has some unique uses but VERY few. The current problem with scholar is that i have to lose damage to cast every off gcd i have. why do i have to cast my 6 faerie spells??? whispering dawn previously was amazing at the end of stormblood and now i have to lose damage to cast like 6 fairy buttons? not to mention fey blessing + tether dont work wiht seraph so its extremely clunky in that i'd have to reapply it or it gets cancelled or even worse sometimes seraph just straight up EATS my spells?? thats so awful. These spells are also not even like spectacular they're so mediocre where is my earthly star spell? Earthly star is crazy powerful and doesnt have any real clunk or jank with it like scholars mediocre fairy spells that make me LOSE damage everytime i want to cast them.

[QooEr]

bruh sacred soil is literally the best heal sch has. it has the highest potency (it even heals more than lustrate on single target if you place it on top of them) and it mitigates too...

you could argue a lot of skills arent "needed" cuz you can clear content without them. i cast helios/medica/succor once in a blue moon but it has its uses. you could clear everything with just gcd heals and no ogcds too so clearly ogcds arent needed either right

and yes cohealers exist so you dont have to use all your resources all the time, thats nothing new.

[Crushnight]

its not better. it costs you too much damage to be good sorry i just disagree. its simply "okay" and will stay in the same spot its been in since STOrmblood its rarely used because its not good in most situations theres just always a better option.

If Ast holds CU for a single gcd then ED loss cost from sacred soil is peanuts compared to the 250 potency loss Ast just suffered.

It is only free if not channelled and when not channelled both versions are weaker than Sacred soil by a good amount (100 less potency HoT + 12s less 10%dmg mitigation for Diurnal, 500 less potency HoT + 5s more 10% dmg mitigation for nocturnal) to make up for no cost.

That is why I say Sacred Soil is better the cost is appropriate for how powerful it is and the fact it could be up for 50% of a fight(should never ever do this just like a fully channelled CU) also speaks volumes.

[Volkaj]

If Ast holds CU for a single gcd then ED loss cost from sacred soil is peanuts compared to the 250 potency loss Ast just suffered.

It is only free if not channelled and when not channelled both versions are weaker than Sacred soil by a good amount (100 less potency HoT + 12s less 10%dmg mitigation for Diurnal, 500 less potency HoT + 5s more 10% dmg mitigation for nocturnal) to make up for no cost.

That is why I say Sacred Soil is better the cost is appropriate for how powerful it is and the fact it could be up for 50% of a fight(should never ever do this just like a fully channelled CU) also speaks volumes.

1. AST holds CU for one GCD = 250p lost, SS = 150p lost. I wouldn't say "peanuts", 100p is still less than an ED. But you shouldn't hold CU anyway.

2. If you're only mitigating a single hit (which tends to be the biggest use case), then both behave the same and CU wins. You get 500p HoT from SS + 10% for that one hit, and the same for CU. This assumes Diurnal: on Noct SS wins.

3. One of the biggest advantages (that noone seems to point out?) is that SS has half the cooldown and will give you both effects (HoT + 10%) for the full duration.

Like I said before, CU doesn't competely replace SS, but in most cases CU will be better than SS because of SS's DPS opportunity cost.

[KDSilver]

I'll just stop arguing with you.
You don't understand what you're talking about.

[Brandedblade]

I just want scholar to Excel at ANYTHING. Scholar is the worst dps and the worst healing. They don't even excel at Aoe despite having the strongest gcd aoe because WHM has misery and assize.

SCH's strength isnt its raw output. Its its ability to synergize with and create openings with its cohealer. Yes. SCH has dps costs to alot of its ogcd kit, but it also has more frequent access to it then AST and WHM does. Its lower output is compensated for by the fact that by using its kit it saves its cohealer gcds. So whatever dps loss the sch is receiving by spending energy drains can be compensated for by the fact its allowing their cohealer to do more gcd damage.

SCH excels at opening flexibility in its cohealer, and too a lesser extent, inflating HP pools and mitigating damage.

[Brandedblade]

You will never hold collective ever lol it's so bad to hold. you one tick it during an OFF global and never hold it.

We have made this point. It's the fact you never hold it that makes it weaker then Sacred Soil. When you do not hold it it becomes weaker then Soil because you loose one of the effects after 3 seconds while the other persists. Sacred Soil does BOTH effects at half the cooldown. And as I've repeated time and again the dps loss of not using energy Drain is mitigated not only by the additional healing potency you're saving for later with the fae gauge, but by the fact you're theoretically reducing the gcd healing your cohealer has to do, which gives back more potency then you lose.

[Volkaj]

We have made this point. It's the fact you never hold it that makes it weaker then Sacred Soil. When you do not hold it it becomes weaker then Soil because you loose one of the effects after 3 seconds while the other persists. Sacred Soil does BOTH effects at half the cooldown. And as I've repeated time and again the dps loss of not using energy Drain is mitigated not only by the additional healing potency you're saving for later with the fae gauge, but by the fact you're theoretically reducing the gcd healing your cohealer has to do, which gives back more potency then you lose.

Stronger/weaker in terms of healing potency only (and stronger only in 2 very specific scenarios).
You'd get Fae Gauge anyway if you used ED instead, so that is irrelevant.

To make things clear, when mitigating one hit (most common):
Sacred Soil: 10% Mitigation + 500p Healing, 150p DPS cost
Collective Unconscious (Diurnal): 10% Mitigation + 500p Healing, 0 DPS cost

The two scenarios where SS is stronger (healing-wise) than CU:
- Mitigating multiple hits (E4S Tumult, LL Splash).
- Using SS after the hit for one extra HoT tick (600p total healing).

As I've repeated time and time again, SS' opportunity cost makes it worse than CU in most cases.
Unless you're running Noct AST. In which case your cohealer is WHM or an AST, and SS isn't in the picture.

[Lilseph]

To make things clear, when mitigating one hit (most common):
Sacred Soil: 10% Mitigation + 500p Healing, 150p DPS cost
Collective Unconscious (Diurnal): 10% Mitigation + 500p Healing, 0 DPS cost

Genuinely don't understand why you're trying to compare Diurnal CU to Sacred Soil instead of Nocturnal CU when they both fill completely different niches. Especially since you'll mostly see Diurnal AST being paired with SCH anyway, it's a little unfair to compare the two complements.