SCH needs help

[YusiKha]

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

he healing in the ultimate fight sch is outclassed by BOTH other healers btw they're also outclassed in damage in the highest scenarios (except aoe they outdo astro on aoe damage) already so chadding as sch is not good healing alot is also not good. (as if they can heal alot anyway lol)

The ultimate fight is MORE than good enough for Data regarding the healers and sch is under performing hard.

Ey that's pretty cool my dude. Would be a shame if HPS actually meant anything though.
Healer Combined Damage is a much better metric, as it shows the WHM/AST being forced to GCD heal to make up for SCH's weakness.

Let's take a look.

Oh dear! You've fallen for one of the classic blunders! The worst comp is the one without a scholar!

I can already hear you typing 'but SCH dps makes up for the lost pot'

Oh no what's this? SCH actually performs worst of the 3 healers in terms of rDPS output?

[Volkaj]

Let's take a look.

Oh dear! You've fallen for one of the classic blunders! The worst comp is the one without a scholar!
Oh no what's this? SCH actually performs worst of the 3 healers in terms of rDPS output?

I personally don't care too much about numbers as long as the jobs are fun to play, but I have to point out here that that AST + WHM comp spread is really narrow. This is probably due to lower sample size, which makes the data less useful.

Another thing to point out about that graph is that it shows that the average AST + WHM comp is the best (assuming we can trust the small sample size), and that WHM + SCH beats AST + SCH.

[Synaesthesia]

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

he healing in the ultimate fight sch is outclassed by BOTH other healers btw they're also outclassed in damage in the highest scenarios (except aoe they outdo astro on aoe damage) already so chadding as sch is not good healing alot is also not good. (as if they can heal alot anyway lol)

The ultimate fight is MORE than good enough for Data regarding the healers and sch is under performing hard.

Scholar is played 3x more than Astrologian in the data you're using and 1.5x as much as white mage? It's almost taken as much as the other two combined, meaning that a Scholar was present in almost every one of these reports.

I don't really understand how this is underperforming, personally.

[technole]

theres some really great points here OP. Don't listen to anyone telling you SCH isnt lacking statistics and data atm PROVE that scholar is by far the worst healer. World first shiva extreme even went ahead to skip SCH and used ASTRO / WHM in their group comp. The facts are that SCH has to give away 150 potency for every heal that isnt recitation and whm / astro do not WHM loses 300 for each set of lilys they use but in some fights that can even be a gain if theres multiple targets OR downtime. On top of glare / dia being insane. ASTRO doesnt lose ANYTHING to weave healing. SCH's tank healing is abysmal now and their mitigation is SUBPAR compared to astro.

You're being overly dramatic.

WHM/SCH was world second, and that group, TPS on Gilgamesh was within 1% of the world first clear. So to make an argument like that is rather worthless.

You might as well not heal at all if you want to keep throwing potency loss on every scholar heal, the fact remains Soil is the best healing oGCD in the game with its potency. Scholar does excel on healing the beginning of any fight with full fairy resources compared to WHM with no lilies grown yet.

[Brandedblade]

No they dont lol look at FFLOGS sch's healing is THE LOWEST in some fights the margin of healing difference is MASSIVE esp in the ultimate fights. . SCH is EXTREMELy lacking in the healing department right now vs the other healers.



You do realize that Soil is just Collective unconscious on astro except that you lose 150 potency everytime you use it right? how can it be better than collective when its literally objectively worse.
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While the Energy Drain cost is still there and I wont argue against that. The fact that it has half the cooldown and, as an aetherflow skill it also has the extra 375ish (I don't know the exact math since pet scaling) single target heal or extra 190-200ish aoe heal potency due to it adding to the fae gauge, I'd argue they are about even.

[Brandedblade]

theres some really great points here OP. Don't listen to anyone telling you SCH isnt lacking statistics and data atm PROVE that scholar is by far the worst healer. World first shiva extreme even went ahead to skip SCH and used ASTRO / WHM in their group comp. The facts are that SCH has to give away 150 potency for every heal that isnt recitation and whm / astro do not WHM loses 300 for each set of lilys they use but in some fights that can even be a gain if theres multiple targets OR downtime. On top of glare / dia being insane. ASTRO doesnt lose ANYTHING to weave healing. SCH's tank healing is abysmal now and their mitigation is SUBPAR compared to astro.

If the aetherflow heal allows both healers to not gcd heal, then it's a gain overall. Not to mention even with the aetherflow restriction theres also all the free healing from the fairy, and all aetherflow skills have extra effective potency thanks to... you guessed it, the fae guage

[Whichi]

If the aetherflow heal allows both healers to not gcd heal, then it's a gain overall. Not to mention even with the aetherflow restriction theres also all the free healing from the fairy, and all aetherflow skills have extra effective potency thanks to... you guessed it, the fae guage

Well the problem with half the cd being that that would cost you 300 potency vs astros completley free collective. or even asylum which has a small weaving cost it still does way more i'd argue since it buffs healing actions like indom AND is a heal overtime on a relatively short CD. Soil is strong sure but i'd still argue its the worst of the three healers simply because it costs SO MUCH when the other two healers get one for FREE (or near free)

[Bobsmiaw]

Well the problem with half the cd being that that would cost you 300 potency vs astros completley free collective. or even asylum which has a small weaving cost it still does way more i'd argue since it buffs healing actions like indom AND is a heal overtime on a relatively short CD. Soil is strong sure but i'd still argue its the worst of the three healers simply because it costs SO MUCH when the other two healers get one for FREE (or near free)

Managing AF stack for both DPSing via ED and Healing via ogcd are SCH identity since AAR.
From what I see, you want a zero DPS loss when using ogcd healing.
Imagine SE change how SCH ogcd heal work from costing 1 AF into 0 AF with longer CD.
If this situation happen, I believe people will be mad like what SE did to AST time manipulation skill.

[Whichi]

Managing AF stack for both DPSing via ED and Healing via ogcd are SCH identity since AAR.
From what I see, you want a zero DPS loss when using ogcd healing.
Imagine SE change how SCH ogcd heal work from costing 1 AF into 0 AF with longer CD.
If this situation happen, I believe people will be mad like what SE did to AST time manipulation skill.

I just want scholar to Excel at ANYTHING. Scholar is the worst dps and the worst healing. They don't even excel at Aoe despite having the strongest gcd aoe because WHM has misery and assize.

If Ast holds CU for a single gcd then ED loss cost from sacred soil is peanuts compared to the 250 potency loss Ast just suffered.

It is only free if not channelled and when not channelled both versions are weaker than Sacred soil by a good amount (100 less potency HoT + 12s less 10%dmg mitigation for Diurnal, 500 less potency HoT + 5s more 10% dmg mitigation for nocturnal) to make up for no cost.

That is why I say Sacred Soil is better the cost is appropriate for how powerful it is and the fact it could be up for 50% of a fight(should never ever do this just like a fully channelled CU) also speaks volumes.

You will never hold collective ever lol it's so bad to hold. you one tick it during an OFF global and never hold it.

I'll just stop arguing with you.
You don't understand what you're talking about.

Hope your day goes well

[Volkaj]

Managing AF stack for both DPSing via ED and Healing via ogcd are SCH identity since AAR.
From what I see, you want a zero DPS loss when using ogcd healing.
Imagine SE change how SCH ogcd heal work from costing 1 AF into 0 AF with longer CD.
If this situation happen, I believe people will be mad like what SE did to AST time manipulation skill.

Reducing the DPS opportunity cost of all AF heals to zero did happen: 5.0, Shadowbringers' launch.
Without Energy Drain, all AF could be used for was for healing, and SCH had heaps of zero-DPS-cost healing, easily beating both WHM and AST.

It was also the most boring playstyle ever made in this game.
In my opinion, even with ED back SCH has one of the most boring playstyles in the game. I honestly don't care right now if SCH's healing or DPS tools are weaker/stronger than AST/WHM. Its just a complete bore to play.

And you can clearly see that SCH's AF was an afterthought for SE because not only was ED not there on launch, but it came back as an outright copy-paste of the SB version, completely at odds with the new AF mechanics they made for SMN.