Thread: (5.2 spoilers) The Defector

I think it’s a widely accepted theory that we (the WoL/D) were the 14th member of the Convocation who resigned that position (before?) summoning Zodiark. I also think it’s also accepted that we were not Venat. Before this patch I believed we were the one to lead the summoning of Hydaelyn. Given now that that’s not the case, I’m left wondering. What is our significance in this story, past and present? If we didn’t want to align ourselves with Hydaelyn either, what is our importance to her even?

Originally Posted by Cereza

I think it’s a widely accepted theory that we (the WoL/D) were the 14th member of the Convocation who resigned that position (before?) summoning Zodiark. I also think it’s also accepted that we were not Venat. Before this patch I believed we were the one to lead the summoning of Hydaelyn. Given now that that’s not the case, I’m left wondering. What is our significance in this story, past and present? If we didn’t want to align ourselves with Hydaelyn either, what is our importance to her even?

I feel like we're the "Failsafe" for the Failsafe. Hear Feel Think, yes we can champion to her side, receive the blessing where applicable - but at some point we have to grow out of the nest and decide on our own how the future of our star should go without either of their influences or weighing in BOTH of them to decide.

I mean she still calls us her kids. For myself - I'd like to be seen eventually as an equal.

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I believe its setting up for the idea that we kill both Hydalyn and Zodiark. The only reason we have a connection to her now is because of the echo and her helping us. But we've now learned that the echo isn't a gift of Hydaelyn, she is just heard when recieving it meaning we could be here to do what we do best. Kill Primals, the eldest Primals.

I think this may be likely in some form as well. It would make sense with how we viewed them both back when they were created. I wonder how it would effect the planet? Would there be negative consequences, or an all around boon? It aligns well if we agreed with the summoners of hydaelyn for the new life to live freely, but not the method. Remove them both for ultimate freedom from their influence. I wonder if Hydaelyn acknowledges this as well, that her existence is not necessarily a positive in the grand scheme of the lives of the people.

Originally Posted by Cereza

I think it’s a widely accepted theory that we (the WoL/D) were the 14th member of the Convocation who resigned that position (before?) summoning Zodiark.

Is it though?

I'd have thought it was Mr Never-before-seen-Ascian who happened to turn up in front of Zenos.

Given we've had no mention of him at all prior to this point (As far as I can tell, Elidibus is the only Ascian we have a name for, though ironically, that may not even be his name)

I also think it’s also accepted that we were not Venat.

That one is pretty obvious, given that when we first learn of Venat, we learn that he's the heart of Hydaelyn. We are not the heart of Hydaelyn. Since we exist in the physical world outside of Hydaelyn.

What is our significance in this story, past and present?

We don't fully know at this point. All we know is that our soul and that of Ardbert is that of someone notable. Someone that Emet-Selch knew.

That and we know that we were one of the ones who was enervated by Hydaelyn (Hence our split soul that is shared with Ardbert) meaning we were not one of the ones that was involved in summoning either Zodiark or Hydaelyn.

If we didn’t want to align ourselves with Hydaelyn either, what is our importance to her even?

Possibly just the strength of our soul. Like, the way it resonates with the past and thus gives us an Echo that seems to encompass multiple peoples versions (I.e. We get enhanced combat prowess, we can see into peoples past like Krile, we can translate all languages etc)

Thus, with this strength, it leads us to being a great target to become Hydaelyn's champion and overcome the Ascians (Whom seem to have been members of the Convocation and thus quite powerful)

It could also be that our soul is that of someone that Venat (Also, possibly Emet-Selch) revered and with Venat being Hydaelyn's heart, it might influence her to favour us.

Originally Posted by Cereza

I wonder how it would effect the planet? Would there be negative consequences, or an all around boon?

It's hard to say. I mean, we know that back before either one existed, the planet was all explosion-y which was not particularly good times.

Meanwhile, the continued existence of both Zodiark and Hydaelyn means risk of Zodiark breaking free of his shackles and being able to do "Zodiark things" (Presumably, not particularly good things. Especially after having been locked away for aeons... He might be a bit salty) - Given that Hydaelyn is weakening over time.

There's also potential danger to worlds if they still have similar properties to regular Primals (I.e. Consuming aether from the surroundings) though we have no evidence this is the case (In fact, we have the opposite. We know that Hydaelyn is getting weaker.

Honestly, from my point of view, what I can see as a likely scenario is that we don't directly kill Hydaelyn, but that she sacrifices herself to give us the power to permanently banish Zodiark and in doing so cause the shards to become safe and secure (No explosions or rejoinings). Possibly even restoring the 7 shards that have already been rejoined (Given that if Zodiark apparently has the power to revive the dead Ancients, surely Hydaelyn might contain the power to restore a few shards and their populous?)

The problem I would see if we removed both Zodiark and Hydaelyn is that I was pretty sure that Hydaelyn controls the lifestream and sits in the middle of the aetherial sea. Also I’m not sure what the effect of the removal of either one would have on the shards and the source. If those become unstable and everything collapses into the source, that would mean the death of millions/billions.

But in the end, even if our past self wasn’t personally involved in Her summoning, our current self is aligned with Hydaelyn to protect the world from the Ascian threat and it doesn’t really matter to me what our past self may or may not have done. Even if we gain memories back in the process of the game, we are our own person with our own ideals, separate from any memories imprinted on our soul.

Originally Posted by Kalise

Snip.

Kind of a small point, but Venat is a woman.

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I believe its setting up for the idea that we kill both Hydalyn and Zodiark. The only reason we have a connection to her now is because of the echo and her helping us. But we've now learned that the echo isn't a gift of Hydaelyn, she is just heard when recieving it meaning we could be here to do what we do best. Kill Primals, the eldest Primals.

I'm willing to entertain the idea that we'll eventually be ending Hydaelyn, as well - but not because we're all primal-killing murder-hobo or whatever. It's entirely possible that once Zodiark is put down, Hydaelyn will no longer have a purpose for existing, and may even regard her own existence as being more harmful than good, just as Alexander did. She may request our assistance in self-termination.

I've seen people claim that the defector in the 5.2 dialog is changing gender based on your character, but I cannot find a source of that. Can anyone *cough* moose *cough* find a source of that?
It'd be nice to actually have confirmation for that theory, otherwise, there are way more options still open. Current-time Elidibus could be the diplomatic Amaurotine actually part of Venat's group, since it's notable that they didn't really object Zodiark's summoning in the first place. They just thought it'd not be enough.