Cataclysm weapons: SEVEN WEEKS!?

[Sarevok_Thordin]

Yep, always how it's done.

Ruby Weapon is there for your i485 needs but no tome i490 weapon for you for those weeks. The only way to get stronger than a crafted weapon is Ruby Weapon EX or Eden's Verse Savage.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Augmented Deepshadow weapons are more than enough for casual content. Kill E4 Titan four times and run the Copied Factory, then save some uncapped tomes. If you want more than that, either buy crafted, do harder content, or wait.

[ElHeggunte]

Still, don't you think that 7 weeks of normal raid and 3 weeks worth of tomes is a bit much for an item?

Nah, seems like pretty standard fare for me and is pretty lenient compared to some other games. I just plan my tome and token gear ahead so I can fill the most slots while still ending up with my 1000 tomes by week 7, so it’s not like my character progression comes to a complete halt for all of those weeks.

And since we have raid tiers for six or so months at a time, I don’t see what the rush is anyway. What do you need the weapon for right now that Deepshadow or Hades can’t get you through? Like others have said, do EVS or Ruby if you want to expedite getting a new weapon... or just wait a few more weeks like the rest of us plebeian non-raiders.

The only real complaint I can see and understand is wanting a tome weapon for multiple classes, but again... stick with Deepshadow for the ones you play least or get into raiding/EX.

[Barraind]

Things are like this because it means they make more money.

Welcome to endgame MMO raiding, its been like that since the 90's.

Its not going to change significantly, because 14 is, by leaps and bounds, the easiest MMO to do it in. Ive gone 2-3 calendar years without upgrading a specific equipment slot in other MMO's, because they actually required getting the right drops, mathing out upgrade paths, and paying attention to something other than Ilvl. You also didnt have "better than the gear you just got from raids for the last 6 months" crafted gear with EVERY SINGLE RAID TIER.

Hell, on Friday, I upgraded my range slot in EQ for the first time in 2 years, because theres finally a non-ranger-only bow with more AC and avoidance mods than the one I've been using since 3 expansions ago.

[Lium]

You can get 480 crafted weapons on the MB. Just buy one. That's what I did. Then again, I don't run savage or extreme, so crafted weapons are fine for me.

[Fynlar]

Usually those ultimate weapons/ equipment came from either a large time investment or beating a superboss, so I'm not sure what kind of point you're making here.

Not a seven weeks time investment. In many of these such games it can take seven minutes to get one if you know what you're doing. Obviously it shouldn't be that simple in a game like this, but seven weeks is excessive. There is absolutely no reason for stuff in a game that gets discarded after 3/6 months like yesterday's trash to take that long to obtain.

The point is that people want to see their characters improve regardless of whether they're doing the game's hardest content, so trying to deride people by saying "well you're not a raider, so you don't need this" is a stupid, flimsy argument. Whether they "need" something is completely irrelevant. Likewise, getting an ultimate weapon after beating a game's hardest content would seem silly to some. What's the point of having that when there's nothing left in the game to challenge you anymore? But that doesn't stop people from wanting it anyway, now does it?

it takes 3 weeks to get enough tomes to buy the weapon to start with. Most people buy tome pieces early on, meaning it will take them even longer anyway. You can get them from raiding week one, and it still takes 3 weeks to buy because of tomes.

It's funny that you don't even seem to realize that the bold makes the whole 7 week thing even more egregious.

Like, is it not already enough that you have to spend 3 weeks worth of weekly tomes for the weapon (which is a far more reasonable time frame for obtaining anything of value in this game), but you need to further gate it behind 7 weeks of normal-raid tokens? The weapons still aren't even as powerful as what raiders can get from the highest tier raid, so what is the need for this excessive gating? It's clear this is only done to allow (a few) raiders to get things sooner than everyone else can, which is fine... to an extent. Again, when the incredibly short shelf life of equipment in this game is taken into account, I don't think tacking on a whole extra month onto tome weapon acquisition for (all) the non-raiders is the right solution.

People buy tome armors early on because they have to. Unless you raid (successfully), and most don't, you literally can't hold enough tomes to be able to buy a weapon before you cap out, so you might as well spend them on something. Even then, if the weapon is what someone is primarily aiming after, it shouldn't be difficult for them to know when they will obtain their 7th token and have 1k tomes ready for it in advance.

People in this game are so used to artificial time gating that I swear to them it looks "generous" whenever they're actually able to obtain something before it's already worthless, no matter how long it actually takes.

[Mavrias]

Not a seven weeks time investment. In many of these such games it can take seven minutes to get one if you know what you're doing. Obviously it shouldn't be that simple in a game like this, but seven weeks is excessive. There is absolutely no reason for stuff in a game that gets discarded after 3/6 months like yesterday's trash to take that long to obtain.

The point is that people want to see their characters improve regardless of whether they're doing the game's hardest content, so trying to deride people by saying "well you're not a raider, so you don't need this" is a stupid, flimsy argument. Whether they "need" something is completely irrelevant. Likewise, getting an ultimate weapon after beating a game's hardest content would seem silly to some. What's the point of having that when there's nothing left in the game to challenge you anymore? But that doesn't stop people from wanting it anyway, now does it?


It's funny that you don't even seem to realize that the bold makes the whole 7 week thing even more egregious.

Like, is it not already enough that you have to spend 3 weeks worth of weekly tomes for the weapon (which is a far more reasonable time frame for obtaining anything of value in this game), but you need to further gate it behind 7 weeks of normal-raid tokens? The weapons still aren't even as powerful as what raiders can get from the highest tier raid, so what is the need for this excessive gating? It's clear this is only done to allow (a few) raiders to get things sooner than everyone else can, which is fine... to an extent. Again, when the incredibly short shelf life of equipment in this game is taken into account, I don't think tacking on a whole extra month onto tome weapon acquisition for (all) the non-raiders is the right solution.

People buy tome armors early on because they have to. Unless you raid (successfully), and most don't, you literally can't hold enough tomes to be able to buy a weapon before you cap out, so you might as well spend them on something. Even then, if the weapon is what someone is primarily aiming after, it shouldn't be difficult for them to know when they will obtain their 7th token and have 1k tomes ready for it in advance.

People in this game are so used to artificial time gating that I swear to them it looks "generous" whenever they're actually able to obtain something before it's already worthless, no matter how long it actually takes.

If you're not raiding, it pretty much is worthless tbh. And if you are raiding its only good if you're struggling to clear later floors.

[BluexBird]

o_O
You're joking, right?

RIGHT?

Please tell me that the above is a jest. B/c the enrages of ex trials have always been a very lenient one compared to savage.

That's exactly it. I'm used to trials not being so demanding. The fact that farm party after farm party only barely managed to kill it before enrage, makes me think the fight was poorly-tuned. Allow me to explain:

First there's phase 1, which is alright. If you have good damage, you're allowed to skip the last tank buster. This is the only easy phase.

Then phase 2 comes. You mess up tethers, you wipe the party. Fail to do enough damage? Wipe.

Then comes the Ascian phase. Tethers, tank swaps, DPS checks, a bunch of healing. Either tank dies? It's over.

THEN there's Mr. Big Ascian. Fairly easy compared to what came before, but you can still fuck this up if you aren't careful.

THEEEN there's fight against final form Ascian. A bunch of simple mechanics, but still there's a possibility of fucking up and going back to the start.

AND FINALLY, AFTER YOU WENT THROUGH ALL THAT, you get the final phase of the fight. And you still can't kill him fast enough before the last enrage spell starts casting? Like really, I had to do it all 4 times to get my axe, with different parties, and not a single one was able to kill him before that. That's not exactly what I call lenient. Not to mention if you fuck up, you go back to the start.

This isn't an ordinary trial. But the game treats Ruby Weapon (Extreme) as if it's on a similar level. It's not. Ruby Weapon is a joke compared to Hades, even if you DID have to redo phase 1 upon death.

[Granyala]

Not to mention if you fuck up, you go back to the start.

Working as intended.

A proper encounter should enforce the mechanics.
We killed Hades... with problems, yes. Enrage timer was not one of them. As soon as the mechanics fell into place -> down he went.
Imho the various Ascian phases are the hardest part of the encounter. What comes after is pretty straight forward and the last phase is basically a freeloot Duke Nuke'em phase.

Yes, he has a lot of phases, I agree. Also, he places a lot of responsibility onto individual players and gives very little room for recovery in these cases (tanks failing meteors, people failing tethers = wipe). Mechanically, he might be a bit annoying for random groups.

We weren't talking about mechanics though. We were talking about the enrage timer. That is as lenient as ever.

[Razard]

This is purely due to Square-Enix's greed. Things are like this because it means they make.

I do declare Mr.Bird. This line of thinking is giving me the Vapours! Please take me to mah fainting couch just to be sure.

A company wanting to make money. The scandal of it all.










/rolleyes