How to classify each Job.

[KDSilver]

Pets aren't really a thing anymore.
Eos/Selene automatically cast Embrace upon being summoned and her oGCD are triggered by the owner (scholar itself).
As for summoner, assault are on the GCD.
So yes, technically, those are pets, but from a gameplay perspective, we went to the "combine pet with owner" route so...

[dinnertime]

At this point SMN is barely DoT-focused. It's more of an instant cast/oGCD-centric job that plays by a priority system. The DoTs are just a part of it. If anything, Bard has more DoT-focused mechanics but other than that, both of them don't focus on DoTs enough to even label the two as DoT-based.

[Kalise]

How to Classify each Job?

PLD/WAR/DRK/GNB = Blue DPS
WHM/SCH/AST = Green DPS
MNK/DRG/NIN/SAM/BRD/MCH/DNC/BLM/SMN/RDM = Red DPS
BLU = Joke Job

[ReiMakoto]

Well I can tell you now those letting DoTs drop is a HUGE loss, and I'm not someone to break a sweat over just some tiny or piddly little 1% damage here...

But keep in mind.... my Bio and Miasma in conjunction are doing between 6,000-7,000 damage per tick at 80th and a iLvl 470... my Ifrit is doing 4200-4600 per swing.

That's a good 10,000 damage ticking underneath everything.
While an Ahk Morn may be around 30,000... those DoTs dropping make your Ahk Morn go from doing 37,000 damage to doing 30,000 damage. They are just that significant. Its wayyyy more than some piddly little 1% some of these Savage players argue over.

Not to mention DoT + Egi for 10,000 damage per tick.... running underneath your Ruin 3s.

That is why SMN is so hard to play... its all about stacking and maintaining that damage throughout. While dodging mechanics and managing all those timers to keep that persistent Damage always going. .

Keep in mind here... for perspective.... BLMs are popping off 40,000+ damage Fire 4's under Enochian and I've seen them do a good 70,000 with Xenoglosssy. And they will just sit there and roll off Fire 4s one after another after another.

SMN is not going to compete with that without stacking their entire load and maintaining it.

Hey, not sure you quite know how an ellipsis (...) works in sentence structure. An ellipsis is used broadly to shorten a quote or to portray a large pause in a sentence usually due to hesitation. For example where you say "keep in mind here...for perspective..." you would actually want to use a comma to denote a short pause: "Keep in mind here, for perspective, blm". Best way to think of it is if its a long pause or shortening of a quote, use ... if it is just a quick snatch or to identify a sub clause in a sentence (like your for perspective bit) use a comma.

Sorry to derail its just a personal dislike of mine seeing ellipsis misused as with how I read it grinds the sentence to a halt

[Gemina]

At this point SMN is barely DoT-focused. It's more of an instant cast/oGCD-centric job that plays by a priority system. The DoTs are just a part of it. If anything, Bard has more DoT-focused mechanics but other than that, both of them don't focus on DoTs enough to even label the two as DoT-based.

SMN has one proc, Ruin IV. And it's tied to egi assaults that cause damage. A lot of SMNs ogcd madness was also reduced in the 5.1.

If anything, I would say SMN is a priority based job, but the same can be said about ALL jobs. The question then becomes what defines their priorities. SMN's DoT upkeep is without question their number one priority. This is why they also have an ogcd that applies both simultaneously, and ogcd ability that allows them to spread it to other targets, and an ability wherein its potency is increased based on both Bio and Miasma effects being active. There is also the Egi's auto attacks, which is also a DoT.

If someone was coming into FFXIV asking which job focuses heavily on DoTs, because they like those kind of jobs; I'd point them right in the direction of SMN.

Pets aren't really a thing anymore.
Eos/Selene automatically cast Embrace upon being summoned and her oGCD are triggered by the owner (scholar itself).
As for summoner, assault are on the GCD.
So yes, technically, those are pets, but from a gameplay perspective, we went to the "combine pet with owner" route so...

Also untrue. Pet AI is wonky at best, and we already know from previous expansions/patches why we would not leave pets on Sic, and always had them on Obey. There is nothing wrong with the summoner commanding the summon. SMN in particular now has two Demis, and getting these guys to come out is a pretty big part of their kit and their appeal. As for the Egis and Lily, they still have to be managed. If anything, I would just say that it is tougher to do so in 5.x because their abilities have all been taken off of the pet hotbar, but it still has to be done.

[Gemina]

This thread has made me think of other ways jobs can be classified, but I don't play all of them so I'm shooting in the dark a bit here.

Mitigator - Job spends a good portion of time reducing damage to the party and themselves
Positional - Job has three or more skills that require rear or flank positions in order to optimize
Support - Job prioritizes based on current situation
Brute - Job brings damage. nothing else.
Pet - A modest portion of the job's kit belongs to the familiar they summon.

Also of note* There is no reason why a single job cannot go into multiple categories. Trying to assign a single category to FFXIV jobs is like trying to sort sporks.

[dinnertime]

SMN has one proc, Ruin IV. And it's tied to egi assaults that cause damage. A lot of SMNs ogcd madness was also reduced in the 5.1.

If anything, I would say SMN is a priority based job, but the same can be said about ALL jobs. The question then becomes what defines their priorities. SMN's DoT upkeep is without question their number one priority. This is why they also have an ogcd that applies both simultaneously, and ogcd ability that allows them to spread it to other targets, and an ability wherein its potency is increased based on both Bio and Miasma effects being active. There is also the Egi's auto attacks, which is also a DoT.

If someone was coming into FFXIV asking which job focuses heavily on DoTs, because they like those kind of jobs; I'd point them right in the direction of SMN.

Technically yes, all jobs are priority-based but the difference is that there's a certain linearity the job design offers, like combos, and others that don't, which are where SMN and Bard fall under.

I think managing Trances and summons is the number one priority out of anything else, it's what you do most of the time, and that the reliance on DoTs have been decreased so much through updates. hence I think it's lesser of a DoT-based job than it used to be.

In theory yes, Pets are DoTs but you don't exactly manage their auto-attacks, but their Egi Assaults. I wouldn't count it personally, but it's worth noting.

[Gemina]

Technically yes, all jobs are priority-based but the difference is that there's a certain linearity the job design offers, like combos, and others that don't, which are where SMN and Bard fall under.

I think managing Trances and summons is the number one priority out of anything else, it's what you do most of the time, and that the reliance on DoTs have been decreased so much through updates. hence I think it's lesser of a DoT-based job than it used to be.

In theory yes, Pets are DoTs but you don't exactly manage their auto-attacks, but their Egi Assaults. I wouldn't count it personally, but it's worth noting.

Combos are just another type of priority based system. I thought about subbing it into a category of its own like I did with the others, but optimal rotations is what everyone does/should strive for regardless if their job mechanics are based on combos, procs, situational abilities, etc. The reason I gave Positionals their own category goes back to my OP. I don't play all the jobs, and two of the heavier positional jobs which I believe are MNK and DRG are two of those. They probably need to be lumped along with priorities like with combos.

I don't want to downplay trances. They are vastly important in the SMN kit, but I stand by my earlier comments about the DoTs. Reliance on DoTs has not decreased through updates. Potencies have been adjusted in order to accommodate updates. It is still super important to keep these up as their total potency is usually super efficient for the mana and GCD cost. If they are not made to be this way, then there is no point using them. Demis cost a s-ton of GCDs in order to optimize their duration. When they are out they become your top priority for sure. Neither are out full time, and both have CDs. However, the demi summons give the SMN something to focus on while their DoTs are active. The way these two kits work together is actually quite well designed imo.

[dinnertime]

Combos are just another type of priority based system. I thought about subbing it into a category of its own like I did with the others, but optimal rotations is what everyone does/should strive for regardless if their job mechanics are based on combos, procs, situational abilities, etc. The reason I gave Positionals their own category goes back to my OP. I don't play all the jobs, and two of the heavier positional jobs which I believe are MNK and DRG are two of those. They probably need to be lumped along with priorities like with combos.

I don't want to downplay trances. They are vastly important in the SMN kit, but I stand by my earlier comments about the DoTs. Reliance on DoTs has not decreased through updates. Potencies have been adjusted in order to accommodate updates. It is still super important to keep these up as their total potency is usually super efficient for the mana and GCD cost. If they are not made to be this way, then there is no point using them. Demis cost a s-ton of GCDs in order to optimize their duration. When they are out they become your top priority for sure. Neither are out full time, and both have CDs. However, the demi summons give the SMN something to focus on while their DoTs are active. The way these two kits work together is actually quite well designed imo.

Combos being another type of priority based system is basically what I said. Let me rephrase, SMN in particular has a playstyle where the system isn't exactly guiding you to do what's next, which means there's no buttons lighting up for combos and there's not a set-in-stone way to do things like you would if a job is combo-based. Instead, you go through a series of stand-alone abilites that you should prioritize and match with other abilites for the best results. That's the general idea of a "priority-based" system. It can be called something else but right now that's what it is universally. It could be identified as situational in gameplay but it depends on what people mean by that.

And I'm very sure reliance on DoTs have been decreased. Remember the days of Contagion extending DoTs, Miasma II, Shadowflare and the short-lived days of Fester-Ruin? There's also Fester being adjusted to a point it's less detrimental if you used it wrong, and they've been gradually nerfing the two DoTs. SMN was so DoT-centric back in 2.0 until 4.0, but nowadays the DoTs feel more like an afterthought. Obviously it's still important to keep DoTs up at all times, SMN is about multi-management and DoTs are a part of it, but now it's only a small portion of what the job does, that's why I wouldn't call it a DoT-based job anymore. Also by summons I'm also including Egi summons, and those Egi Assaults come up frequently, so I think managing your summons is what now makes most of SMN's gameplay at this point, and that's how it should've been from the start.

[Silverquick]

They haven't man,

DoTs are still a large part of the damage you do. They just aren't the ONLY thing you do anymore.

Previously you'd be stacking an absolute crapton of them. Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II, Shadowflare, and one other one I can't remember right now and they all stacked. They combined them and nerfed.. errrm "reworked" them to include now ONLY Bio and Miasma the rest including Contagion is gone. BUT... they are still a shockingly large part of your DPS just as Gemina is saying.

I'm not lying to you when I tell you my Pet + DoTs account for about 10K damage running under my Ruin 3 casts which are doing around 12k. That's half my normal damage when there is no trance running. Fester is around 20k, which STILL has the 10k of DoT + Pet running underneath it. (iLvL 470)

They are STILL that huge of a chunk of your damage.