(5.2 Spoilers)Question about Thancred

[KohliJawantal]

With the confirmation that seeing the Starshower grants the Echo, why then does Thancred not possess the Echo? I noticed that he saw it during 1.0, shown here: https://youtu.be/X7JdbKUsFLk

[Kalise]

Not everyone that witnesses the Starshower gets the Echo.

As noted by only a handful of people in the crowd were granted it in the Crystarium.

In addition, you'll note that Alisaie, Alphinaud, G'raha Tia, Y'shtola and Urianger did not get granted the Echo when witnessing the Starshower in the Crystarium either.

[Lium]

Also, from what I understand, the 1.0 Starshower has been retconned. Initially, the Starshower was just the remnants of Meteor. Now, it's the Final Days.

[Iscah]

In addition, you'll note that Alisaie, Alphinaud, G'raha Tia, Y'shtola and Urianger did not get granted the Echo when witnessing the Starshower in the Crystarium either.

It's possible that even if they would otherwise be awoken to the Echo, most of the Scions are not in their true bodies which might have an impact on their ability to be affected.

The "triggering lost memories" thing might not work as effectively either if they're already aware of the truth.

Or it all might be a visual-and-aural illusion by Elidibus and the "newly Echo-blessed" only think they heard Hydaelyn's voice - or rather, we only think they did from what they described.

We'll have to wait and see whether they even really continue to show signs of the Echo, and how much Elidibus is puppeteering the entire thing.

[Anonymoose]

Also, from what I understand, the 1.0 Starshower has been retconned. Initially, the Starshower was just the remnants of Meteor.

Even that was a fan theory from after Yoshida joined the team and started the Dalamud drop. Yoshida brought the moon down. I have no idea what Hiromichi Tanaka and then-world-setting-manager Kenichi Iwao really intended for the Starshower. The way that the Starshower immediately precedes the appearance of the primals, that it flashes purple just before it opens, and that it appears over Mor Dhona suggests that it was probably related to the abandoned Presence of Silvertear Lake story somehow. But whatever it was, it's gone now! lol

[KDSilver]

I'm starting to wonder if it was not a lie from Elidibus to convince people to be warrior of light, do some "light" stuff to start another flood.
Because when you hear him and from what I understood, starshower = your echo awakens.
It's weird.

[Anonymoose]

The idea that he'd try to pool Light again already is not illogical; Ascians recycle and course-correct their plans all the time. But something about it feels weird as a writing choice. We've been thwarting that plan since 3.4, and now we're fighting Eden and cutting everything off at the source. It feels so thematically-inclinded towards resolution of matters on the First regarding its instability/rejoining for a while so we can do something else in the story. Like go to Garlemald. Could main thrust of the plan be just, "Meh, umbral everything again"? (Though that could be a secondary goal of the primary being successful, though.)

I think the primary thing might just be...

[A] Cause societal stress / collapse
[B] Keep the Warrior of Light distracted and bogged down
[C] Ideally have one or more of these high-zeal, low-doubt "Chosen" go full Ysayle and not question their actions as they try to murder the Warrior of Light fOr ThE gOoD oF tHe WoRLd

[Cilia]

To my memory, the 1.0 starshower was something that inexplicably happened after the Battle of Silvertear Skies. I don't recall anything anywhere hinting at what awakened the Echo in 2.0's generation, though I would wholly believe it was the Calamity (Dalamud / Bahamut himself).

I can't say for sure what Elidibus' plan is, but I can say with relative certainty it has something to do with disrupting society, at least in the Crystarium. I feel there's a little too much attention put on that for it to not be relevant. Other points to note are their dreams of glory (heroes act without thought of glory or reward; accolades are a consequence, not a goal) and that while Elidibus may have titled those he awoke "Warriors of Light," that title is used to denote one with Hydaelyn's blessing (in part or in full), something they do not have. Yet. (The Doylist answer for it is more likely "We need to refer to the PC in the voiced dialogue, so let's go with the classic title." Otherwise you get awkward stuff happening like in X, where nobody ever actually says Tidus' name.)

It's late so I'm not jumping on to check, but I also believe Elidibus said that we would "meet our end" at their hands, so he wants them to kill us...

Well, whatever direction this goes, it's gotta go fast, given as precedent means the next patch will be the "True End" of Shadowbringers. Please look forward to it!

[Vyrerus]

As it's already been stated, the meteor rain is only a catalyst. It doesn't really grant the Echo, so much as it teases it out of those who it would have awakened in naturally. As for why that is, well, think about it. Having been so long since the Age of Ancients, there's bound to be souls present in our present that were not present at the fall of Amaurot and the world as it was back then. Though it's pure speculation, they may have also been souls who were not bothered by the original calamity, as strange as that may seem. Either those who are zen, or maybe even those who sought to bring about the calamity faster. I'm sure Amaurotine society had psychopaths/sociopaths/criminals.

I always got the impression that since every boss in Amaurot has a face that the these were Ancients who didn't like society and distorted themselves with creation magicks to become abominations and tear the society down. The Terminus Cult, basically. I wouldn't want our dear Scions to have souls related to them, but I'm just spit balling ideas as for why not everyone can have the Echo unlocked.

We may just be in the midst of poor conveyance though. It seems, from all the people I know who've done 5.2, that there is a split in perception of the Crystarium event. Some people are convinced that everyone present got the Echo, while others, including myself, see it as only a portion of the crowd received it. Though I really like the idea that the perception of receiving the Echo is also an illusion/trick like Iscah said up above.

[Iscah]

Well, whatever direction this goes, it's gotta go fast, given as precedent means the next patch will be the "True End" of Shadowbringers. Please look forward to it!

*clings favourite characters tightly*