Option to unlock content without mandatory MSQ

[GeminiReed]

You are dreaming if you think they are going to throw away their cash cow of skip potions.

Depends. What's worth more? Skip potion sales or new player retention? The ARR rework suggests their metrics are reflecting the latter is an issue. IMO streamlining ARR/7th Astral is not nearly enough. My 3rd alt through ShB took 300 hours and that's with skipping pretty much all cutscenes before HW and a good 60-75% of the HW ones. That's too big of an ask.

Though, how relevant "Opening Up" the game to these people is, given of all the things you've listed there, the only ones that FFXIV does WELL is Art and the forced Visual Novel.

There are MMO's with much better combat than FFXIV.

There are MMO's with much better dungeons and raids than FFXIV (Heck, WoW's Raids are like the only good thing in the damn game)

There are MMO's with much better crafting than FFXIV.

The only thing that makes FFXIV stand out from other titles, is that it has an absolutely fantastic MSQ.

Hard disagree on all points.

Combat: I'll agree that 14's combat doesn't start to get interesting until much later in the levelling grind. This is not a unique problem though. The race to end-game isn't only about getting to the content but also getting to the point where you have your core skills. This personal peeve wouldn't be so grating if all we gained were fun situational skills. Unfortunately class designers feel compelled award you with skills that completely change how the class is played. I also loathe class sets that again mess with the core rotation. IMO the core flow should be put in place by the end of the tutorial zones.

PVE instances: The 6 months I suffered WoW did not impress me. I loved Wildstar's dungeons and raids but there simply wasn't enough. I also loved SW:TOR's instances but they broke all incentives for running them. Consequently you do not have a population that can consistently run the more challenging instances.

Crafting: Seriously? Most have been an afterthought and very often the output isn't worth making. Haven't seen any that all that engaging either.

Yes, compared to other MMO's, its story is great but that bar is not exactly high. I've had better story experiences in single player games. The thing with story is that it's one-and-done content. No MMO can live on story alone. Just look at SW:TOR to see how well that worked out for them.

[Kalise]

Combat: I'll agree that 14's combat doesn't start to get interesting until much later in the levelling grind.

FFXIV's combat doesn't get interesting at all.

Even once you've slugged out to max level, all you have left is predetermined rotations that are set in stone.

To the point where, if the Macro system wasn't utter garbage, most jobs would be able to make a 1 button macro that does an entire boss fight's worth of optimized skill usage.

Compare this to more action orientated MMO's like BDO or ESO, even Astellia as another tab target MMO has more interesting combat and it's like night and day.

PVE instances

There being "Not enough" (Either dungeons or players) doesn't discount the fact that if people only cared about good instances, then there are better iterations than FFXIV's hallway simulator/oh look another Trial/Raid that is just a single mob in an arena...

Crafting: Seriously? Most have been an afterthought and very often the output isn't worth making.

Like those statements don't apply to FFXIV either... Where the only worthwhile things to make are each raid tiers new set and even that's only notable if you're going for early Savage attempts.

EQ2's crafting is more interesting to actually participate in too, since you can't just press a macro and then go AFK while stuff makes itself (Which creates a system not very far away from the terrible WoW crafting one)

No MMO can live on story alone. Just look at SW:TOR to see how well that worked out for them.

FFXIV lives on story alone. That and hitting the nostalgia buttons of Final Fantasy fans.

SW:TOR, had some good story for the class quests, but after that the story was kind of meh. Meaning that while it was hinging on its story to stay alive, its story kind of became as crummy as the rest of their game...

As is, FFXIV, is the most notable example of a story based MMO. Many people are here mainly for the story and in fact, there are quite significant numbers of players who drop their subs and wait for the next story to release then resub and play through it and get geared to then unsub and wait for the next story drop.

There simply are better alternatives for people who want good combat/instances/crafting (Though, some will come with caveats of other areas being not good... Like, while BDO's combat is great, it has no instances and "Crafting" is horrible... Though Trade Routes are pretty fun)

[SamRF]

FFXIV's combat doesn't get interesting at all.

Even once you've slugged out to max level, all you have left is predetermined rotations that are set in stone.

To the point where, if the Macro system wasn't utter garbage, most jobs would be able to make a 1 button macro that does an entire boss fight's worth of optimized skill usage.

Compare this to more action orientated MMO's like BDO or ESO, even Astellia as another tab target MMO has more interesting combat and it's like night and day.

You can't really compare FFXIV combat system to BDO or ESO imo. I greatly prefer FFXIV/WoW type of combat with lots of abilities and slots used. Games like ESO, BDO, GW2 are more action game-ish with their limited amount of abilities, BDO & ESO don't even have tab targeting so it's something else entirely (action combat). In GW2 and ESO you also need to weapon swap to play optimally to make up for the ability shortage. Personally greatly dislike the idea of weapon-swapping in combat.

I do wish more jobs in FFXIV were using procs more often cause also don't like the idea of predetermined rotations set in stone. Still, except for some jobs perhaps (healers), FFXIV combat isn't that bad imo right now. There are few (polished) MMO's I think that use as many slots as FFXIV, even most WoW specs use way less. And that's something I personally like about combat system of this game, which I won't find in many other polished MMO's at the moment. Also, I think the lack of macros get sort of compensated by the amount of abilities and length of some rotations.

[Kalise]

You can't really compare FFXIV combat system to BDO or ESO imo.

You can easily compare them.

Action and tab target based systems do exist and they can be implemented in different ways.

The aforementioned action based systems lend themselves to being more engaging.

However, there also exist tab targeting MMO's with more interesting combat. B&S, CoH/V, Astellia and GW2 have tab targetting systems that are more interesting than FFXIV's.

WoW manages to escape this list because even though it uses a more engaging "Priority based system" as opposed to a "Set in stone rotation" it has the ability for classes (Sans Feral Druid which is complex to maximize DPS due to buff and DoT timers) to macro a single button with all their skills in priority order and then mash that ad infinitum...

In GW2 and ESO you also need to weapon swap to play optimally to make up for the ability shortage. Personally greatly dislike the idea of weapon-swapping in combat.

Weapon swapping isn't the biggest deal in those games, especially depending on how you have spec'd (Moreso for Tanks in ESO where you're basically stuck with SnB forever because of how much stronger its block skill is and the fact that you either need SnB or that single other skill set for access to Taunt which you need to use every 15 seconds due to how aggro works in that game)

There are few (polished) MMO's I think that use as many slots as FFXIV, even most WoW specs use way less.

Though, it's not entirely about the number of skills. But how you USE those skills.

In FFXIV, a lot of skills are fluff ones. Like, your filler rotation of 123 for melee characters is no different to other games (Or other jobs) filler rotation of 111. Only you need extra keybinds for no reason. Heck, this is made more apparent when PvP and the RP fights will condense this 123 rotation down to a single button...

In a game like Astellia, my Assassin has a core DPS skill set of about 6 buttons. But the way those buttons are used are really interesting, making use of DoT uptime, combo point generation and usage, positioning and even mana management. With those 6 buttons, I actually have so much going on, I don't even use my filler skill.

Throw in the added complexity in that game of managing your Astels (Both their skills as well as your resources for summoning and maintaining them) as well as CC skills which are actually useful to set up for situational damage skills and you get a lot of interesting combat, without having a ton of fluff skills that are often excessive (I.e. Healers with too many heals and not enough places to actually use them. Tanks with a billion CD's but only infrequent TB's to use them on. Extra filler skills to seemingly just add more buttons for the sake of having more buttons etc)

[SamRF]

Though, it's not entirely about the number of skills. But how you USE those skills.

In FFXIV, a lot of skills are fluff ones. Like, your filler rotation of 123 for melee characters is no different to other games (Or other jobs) filler rotation of 111. Only you need extra keybinds for no reason. Heck, this is made more apparent when PvP and the RP fights will condense this 123 rotation down to a single button...

In a game like Astellia, my Assassin has a core DPS skill set of about 6 buttons. But the way those buttons are used are really interesting, making use of DoT uptime, combo point generation and usage, positioning and even mana management. With those 6 buttons, I actually have so much going on, I don't even use my filler skill.

Throw in the added complexity in that game of managing your Astels (Both their skills as well as your resources for summoning and maintaining them) as well as CC skills which are actually useful to set up for situational damage skills and you get a lot of interesting combat, without having a ton of fluff skills that are often excessive (I.e. Healers with too many heals and not enough places to actually use them. Tanks with a billion CD's but only infrequent TB's to use them on. Extra filler skills to seemingly just add more buttons for the sake of having more buttons etc)

You have a valid opinion and I have heard other people have about the same complaints as you have. In the end I think it's subjective and comes down to personal preference. I may be in the minority, but I kind of like having button bloat and get creative with my slots and keybindings to get all abilities in convenient reach, I wouldn't mind to get some more buttons for all jobs in ffxiv right now, even if they're not part of the core rotation.

[SturmChurro]

You can't really compare FFXIV combat system to BDO or ESO imo. I greatly prefer FFXIV/WoW type of combat with lots of abilities and slots used. Games like ESO, BDO, GW2 are more action game-ish with their limited amount of abilities, BDO & ESO don't even have tab targeting so it's something else entirely (action combat). In GW2 and ESO you also need to weapon swap to play optimally to make up for the ability shortage. Personally greatly dislike the idea of weapon-swapping in combat.

I do wish more jobs in FFXIV were using procs more often cause also don't like the idea of predetermined rotations set in stone. Still, except for some jobs perhaps (healers), FFXIV combat isn't that bad imo right now. There are few (polished) MMO's I think that use as many slots as FFXIV, even most WoW specs use way less. And that's something I personally like about combat system of this game, which I won't find in many other polished MMO's at the moment. Also, I think the lack of macros get sort of compensated by the amount of abilities and length of some rotations.

Same. I prefer FFXIV combat as well. ESO is hot trash. BDO has decent combat, but ruins it with trash grind, cash shop garbage, overall uninteresting theme, etc. FFXIV is the premier MMORPG right now.

[linay]

Depends. What's worth more? Skip potion sales or new player retention? The ARR rework suggests their metrics are reflecting the latter is an issue.

I don't think it's about either one. If it's the former, they don't need to change the MSQ. If it's about the latter, they could just bundle a free MSQ potion with every expansion.

They want the player to go through the story, but they are shortening it in that one part from what I can tell.

FFXIV's combat doesn't get interesting at all.

It got interesting for me the moment I fired my first Ruin all those years ago. No other MMORPG combat has given me as much satisfaction as FFXIV's combat up to this time.

[Kalise]

It got interesting for me the moment I fired my first Ruin all those years ago. No other MMORPG combat has given me as much satisfaction as FFXIV's combat up to this time.

I'm curious. What exactly about it do you find interesting compared to other MMO's?

What about that first Ruin was different to literally every other tab target MMO where you target an enemy, press your button and then cast the spell on the enemy?

That really depends on jobs, and assumes that you don't have mechanics to deal with while doing said rotation. Dancer for example has a lot of procs. You cannot play dancer with a macro even on a target dummy. Paladin you could on a target dummy, but not on an actual boss where you have to move, deal with mechanics, use defensive cooldowns on tank busters, etc.

As I said, "Most" jobs.

As far as something like PLD, the only issue comes from any mechanics that cause you to move away from the boss.

Even Tankbusters are not a problem for a macro, given that, unlike other MMO's, bosses do their mechanics on a set timer that does not change ever. So you ALWAYS know exactly how far into a fight you'll need to have a line that casts a particular defensive CD (This also includes healers popping their oCGD heals and AoE heals for the predetermined unavoidable damage)

Other MMO's generally take to having a window of time where a mechanic can occur, giving a little bit of variance as opposed to "Boss will do X then Y then Z then X then Y then Z" - These windows often will include overlap with each other, so the order of mechanic usage can vary. This causes macro only gameplay to be impossible, because you might know about when a mechanic will happen (So will also have CD's available) but won't know exactly when until it happens.

[Shurrikhan]

FFXIV's combat doesn't get interesting at all.

Even once you've slugged out to max level, all you have left is predetermined rotations that are set in stone.

The sad thing is that for a few jobs across a few iterations, this wasn't always the case. Some noticeably rewarded rotational variance for purposes of timed burst, mobility, or CD sync.

Sadly, certain upgrades and unaware internal balance decisions (e.g. a job's skill's strength, and therefore potential rotation decision, relative to others') have mostly removed that.

[Akiudo]

Depends. What's worth more? Skip potion sales or new player retention? The ARR rework suggests their metrics are reflecting the latter is an issue. IMO streamlining ARR/7th Astral is not nearly enough. My 3rd alt through ShB took 300 hours and that's with skipping pretty much all cutscenes before HW and a good 60-75% of the HW ones. That's too big of an ask.

well considering its your 3rd alt which one absolutely doesn't need obviously you are not the one square fears will leave anytime soon.

thats not to say its not an issue (i might add that i personally feel they really could wave the mainstory requirement with alt characters at least) but the arr rework mostly suggest that players jumping ship during what is a giant slog fest, maybe just reworking that portion is not enough, i dont know, but generally this game is build upon a foundation of "this is the story, we are gonna tell it to you, you will listen to this story" .
Cutting out the 5 boring and not really adding anything important chapters out of a great 20 chapter book may very well be all it takes to make it so suddenly 80% of people finish the book in question instead of only 40% that do now, and the same may very well go for this very story driven mmorpg where the narrative is part of the package integrated at its core, we simply don't know the answer to that.