Open Letter to the Devs Regarding Eden's Verse: Reflugence [Spoilers]

[Axxion]

Did we really need another post about this? Making a mountain of a mole hill.

[DubiousDisk]

I can't believe someone willingly typed this out, and confidently posted it on the forums like they were changing the world.

I...love this place.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

When Ysyale turns into Shiva, she retains a similar appearance.

Why, then, would Ryne turn into Ysayle when she transforms? Especially given that this fight is about her not only taking on Shiva's properties, but also tapping into the Minfilia/Hydaelyn aspects of her legacy. There's also the fact that the fight isn't about her turning into Ysayle, but turning into Saint Shiva. Ysayle is not a factor in this equation, hence why the song Oblivion, which has lyrics about Ysayle, are not used.

[heiligeharmonie]

That seems more like a fixation of your own mindset rather than something that the devs should intervene with. Yes, you made valid points but at the same time. I went into refulgence and the first thing i thought of wasnt a sexualization of Ryne on Shivas body, all i could focus on was staying alive, doing mechanics, and enjoying the gorgeous field they created for the field. The next thing I focused on was the several different lore references that were there.

Like the references to Hydaelyn and how Ryne being the oracle of light altered Shiva’s abilities and mixed it with what we know of the battle between Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

You can’t stop people’s personal thoughts and fantasies but there is one thing very much in your power to do. Ignore it, block it out, don’t go looking for these things that will be out there in the internet. If it disturbs you, as for the fight itself and your feelings, there are two ways to go, continue farming for gear and try to force yourself not to think about it and focus on other aspects of the fight or.. don’t.

To ask the devs to do this is like asking game developers to stop making sonic games because of the lewd communities out there. It shouldn’t limit their creativity because the internet exists.

Your comparison there is a little extreme--asking developers to change part of a boss's design and asking an entire game to not be made would be very different things. Besides that, you're also comparing an under-aged human character to anthropomorphic animals that, as far as I know, are all adults.

I am well aware that you can't actually control people's thoughts and feelings. The point is that when you depict an under-aged character in this way, it can be viewed as an invitation to do so. All content creators need to be mindful of the kind of imagery they put out and how it could be interpreted. If they don't want to change it, then fine, I'll just have to deal with it and produce my art and cosplay in the way that I feel is appropriate and do what I have to to avoid coming across the disgusting things other people make. But I have the means and ability to encourage the devs to be a little more responsible about the kinds of images they're creating themselves, so I'm going to do it.

And I don't mean to imply that I didn't appreciate all the lore tie ins and the arena and the fight design itself--just that there was a noticeable problem that keeps distracting me. I know I'm not the only person that thinks Ryne being portrayed in this way is a problem, just maybe the only one so bothered by it that I'd actually try to tell the devs about it, instead of just complaining about it privately with the people who agree.

[heiligeharmonie]

I can't believe someone willingly typed this out, and confidently posted it on the forums like they were changing the world.

I...love this place.

I mean, if the devs didn't want to know what people think, they wouldn't read any of the posts on the forums other than bug reports or any of the other social platforms FFXIV has accounts on, soooo [shrug]
But let me just tell you, definitely didn't post this with confidence. If I had, it would have been posted three days ago. I totally expected people to respond that I'm too easily offended, making a big deal out of nothing, oh it's just a game, and a bunch of comments that bring absolutely nothing of value to the conversation. That's just the nature of the internet, isn't it?

[heiligeharmonie]

When Ysyale turns into Shiva, she retains a similar appearance.

Why, then, would Ryne turn into Ysayle when she transforms? Especially given that this fight is about her not only taking on Shiva's properties, but also tapping into the Minfilia/Hydaelyn aspects of her legacy. There's also the fact that the fight isn't about her turning into Ysayle, but turning into Saint Shiva. Ysayle is not a factor in this equation, hence why the song Oblivion, which has lyrics about Ysayle, are not used.

I did think about that at first, believe me. But, with these versions of the primals supposedly being based on the WoL's recollections of the primals (despite how very DIFFERENT they end up looking lol), it could still make sense for Shiva to have Ysayle's face, given that she was the Shiva the WoL fought. Now, if we'd ever had a clear look at Saint Shiva's face, I'd be all for using that face (and actually, using the OG Minfilia's face on the Hydaelyn based form probably wouldn't be a terrible idea, in the spirit of not using baby's face, hmmm). My primary point is that depicting an under-aged character in the way that she has been is just...not a good look. I mean, if someone were to photoshop a real teenager's face onto a grown woman's nearly nude body, they'd get a big ass squint from a lot of people. I just don't believe that fictional children should be regarded any differently. If the devs don't agree, then I can't make them.

[VenKitsune]

At what point was Ryne's age stated? At what point was any characters specific age stated?
She may be "underdeveloped", but she could easily pass as 18 in asia, which just so happens to be where the game is developed, where the age of consent also happens to be on average, lower than countries in the west, not that its relevant. If she had the standard child model that made her look like 8 years old, you might have some basis for an argument, but as it is, she's just a fictional character with an unspecified age that just so happens to look "young"...If 1/3rd of her character model's volume was breasts, but she still otherwise looked the same, would we even be having this discussion?

[HyoMinPark]

my own reaction to seeing that pre-fight scene upon entering the instance was, “Oooh, I want to cosplay thaaaaat’s Ryne’s baby face on cleavage [cringe].” I couldn't enjoy the fight because I was too busy thinking, "YIKES," over and over, especially on every Redress mechanic. I'm still not sure if I want to go back in or not because of how uncomfortable it made me.

I’ve been progging E8S for a while now, and this thought literally never crossed my mind. This honestly sounds like it’s a personal problem/perception on your part, OP.

[Lilseph]

I don't understand. When I was doing that fight, I just thought "oh wow they went all out" with the animations and Shiva's costume. Not to mention the voice acting surprised me, but a welcomed surprise! OP, are you sure you aren't the one with the dirty mind here?

[Penthea]

At what point was Ryne's age stated? At what point was any characters specific age stated?
She may be "underdeveloped", but she could easily pass as 18 in asia, which just so happens to be where the game is developed, where the age of consent also happens to be on average, lower than countries in the west, not that its relevant. If she had the standard child model that made her look like 8 years old, you might have some basis for an argument, but as it is, she's just a fictional character with an unspecified age that just so happens to look "young"...If 1/3rd of her character model's volume was breasts, but she still otherwise looked the same, would we even be having this discussion?

Well Ryne says at one point that Alisae and Alphinaud are around her age, so Ryne is 16 or 17. Though I doubt the twins haven't passed their birthday by now since ARR so maybe 17 - 18? Anyway point being, from that alone we know for a fact she is in her mid to late teens.

I think it would have been a bit strange to have Ysayle's face instead of Ryne given Ryne is the vessel for the summoning. Primal Shiva's face is quite similar to Ysayle's and possibly looks nothing like Shiva the elezen.

I suppose you could say the skimpy outfits are because that's what Ysayle's version of Shiva wore, but it wasn't really necessary to make them so skimpy in my opinion. SE could have opted to design outfits that covered more skin but still maintain the Shiva primal aesthetic. Especially the savage transformation. She doesn't need to be naked save for a dragon's body barely covering her to make a point about them being intertwined.