How we determine balance and its flaws.

[SleepyNeko]

If the OP's main point is that classes that require more work should have a slight advantage in rDPS then I agree. However the hard part comes with how much harder are we talking here and how much advantage in rDPS?

Basically the argument is that as a selfish dps like SAM just needs 1 player(them self) to get 95% however as a DNC you will need at least 1 more player to perform as well. In the case of 5.0 NIN your trick attack required more coordination and had more impact so you'll need at least 3 other players (3 dps) to be top tier to pad your rDPS.

TL;DR Selfish dps only requires 1 player's skill while support dps requires multiple players therefore support dps require more work and the reward (rDPS) should be greater.

[Akiudo]

If the OP's main point is that classes that require more work should have a slight advantage in rDPS then I agree. However the hard part comes with how much harder are we talking here and how much advantage in rDPS?

Basically the argument is that as a selfish dps like SAM just needs 1 player(them self) to get 95% however as a DNC you will need at least 1 more player to perform as well. In the case of 5.0 NIN your trick attack required more coordination and had more impact so you'll need at least 3 other players (3 dps) to be top tier to pad your rDPS.

TL;DR Selfish dps only requires 1 player's skill while support dps requires multiple players therefore support dps require more work and the reward (rDPS) should be greater.

as i see it (and at least how i read the op's point, though sorry if i'm wrong on that) its not so much that it requires more work and should therefore be more rewarding but that people argue (and yes they do, repeatedly) support dps (so every dps class with any kind of damage buff or whatever) even in the proposed perfect "everyone performs like a god on steroids" scenario should not be able to out dps a "pure" dps, even if all they have on the pure dps are actual damage buffs.

Basically "if mch does 15k dps than bard at best should be allowed to do a combined personal+group dps of 14,5k." Not because of things like armys paeon though, purely based on "bard has damage buffs, mch has not" because so they say if bard could reach the level of mch (or nin the level of samurai or whatever class you desire...) than no one would take the pure class anymore.

the argument against this and which i believe it is he's trying to make now is that if even under perfect circumstances the "support" still offers less dps than the "pure" dps than than the "support" in fact will allways offer less dps-> therefore under perfect circumstances indeed the "support" should offer more dps in exchange for offering less under not perfect circumstances. (mind you, "more" doesn't necessarely mean "a lot more" or whatever, just that you shouldn't intentionally balance them weaker even under perfect circumstances)

[Vendalwind]

as i see it (and at least how i read the op's point, though sorry if i'm wrong on that) its not so much that it requires more work and should therefore be more rewarding but that people argue (and yes they do, repeatedly) support dps (so every dps class with any kind of damage buff or whatever) even in the proposed perfect "everyone performs like a god on steroids" scenario should not be able to out dps a "pure" dps, even if all they have on the pure dps are actual damage buffs.

Basically "if mch does 15k dps than bard at best should be allowed to do a combined personal+group dps of 14,5k. not because of things like armys paeon though, purely based on "bard has damage buffs, mch has not" because so they say if bard could reach the level of mch (or nin the level of samurai or whatever class you desire...) than no one would take the pure class anymore.

the argument against this and which i believe it is he's trying to make now is that if even under perfect circumstances the "support" still offers less dps than the "pure" dps than than the "support" in fact will allways offer less dps-> therefore under perfect circumstances indeed the "support" should offer more dps in exchange for offering less under not perfect circumstances. (mind you, "more" doesn't necessarely mean "a lot more" or whatever, just that you shouldn't intentionally balance them weaker even under perfect circumstances)

That is exactly it yes. Tho the previous poster was pretty close to my intent as well.