Off Tank Stance?

[Kalise]

I typically just leave tank stance on all the time.

If the other tank is crummy on aggro... Well, Shirk exists for a reason. If it's really bad, then I'll toggle it off for a bit (Usually one of my burst combos is enough to create a large enough gap to not worry)

However, there's little recourse in either scenario. Leaving it on or off.

So long as you're 2nd on aggro then it doesn't matter at all. Especially since the enmity changes basically means that DPS/Healers pretty much don't have any enmity compared to like 1 burst combo with tank stance on...

[Lucy_Pyre]

Actually Ven is right and you are wrong. 3-5 GCDs after the pull is the perfect time to turn on tank stance. From there you will be second on the hate list for the rest of the fight unless something goes drastically wrong, at which point provoke and shirk are quick stabilisers

If I'm OTing and I turn Defiance on in GCD 3-5 there is about a 90+% chance I'm ripping aggro off of the other tank. So no, they are in fact, not right. Unless there is a mechanic happening early in the fight that requires both tanks to be first and second on aggro there is no reason to turn your stance on until after both tanks have finished their burst windows. Otherwise you risk ripping aggro, especially if one of the tanks is doing significantly more damage than the other.

[Liam_Harper]

As WAR, if I am off-tank I turn Defiance on right after my Inner Release window runs out. I've never had any issues with that.

Same here. I'll leave stance off until I've unloaded Inner Release, then turn it on for the fight.

If my co-tank is really struggling, such as a low geared PuG tank with low dps, there's Shirk and you can turn stance off for your other IR windows.

[Eloah]

Not that I am really qualified to weigh in on tank damage or anything, but to generalize things this is how I see it. To start, everyone has their own thing they do when they open up a fight, so it's best to simplify things to place everyone on as much equal footing as possible. The simplest way is to count 6 GCDs, enough to encompass each tanks combos. This does not take into account any usage of oGCD skills, since where and when someone might use them is debatable. It does however take into account things like DoTs or natural stat boost these skills produce.

With all that accounted for here here are the "burst" numbers.

GNB comes in first with a total 2550, from their first and cartridge combos. The continuation aspect of the combo was not counted as that is an oGCD move.

PLD comes in second with 2110, using their two combo enders, as well as at least 2 ticks from the Goring Blade DoT, provided it's used prior to Royal Authority. Even if the the DoT ticks aren't accounted for their total would still be 1940.

WAR is third with 1848, this number provided Storm's Eye is used prior to Storm's Path, to gain the added 10% on the next 3 GCD skills. If this is reversed their total is the lowest at 1760.

DRK is last or third at an even 1800, a "downside" of them only having "one" combo. Sadly they can't benefit from their 10% bonus since its tied to oGCD moves.

Once 6 GCD have passed turning on your tank stance should be acceptable, as enough time and enmity have passed to prevent aggro stealing. If you dont feel comfortable doing that, simply just wait a bit longer.

[BarretOblivion]

Turn on tank stance after you give the MT a good lead, maybe a good down time when you can swap to it without it a detriment to your job. If you are over taking hate at that point... they are just a crap player.

[ShariusTC]

Turn off your tank stance for 2 or 3 GCD if i dont want MT, then turn on incase something happen and MT die, shirk if you feel that you about to take over MT

[whiskeybravo]

Actually Ven is right and you are wrong. 3-5 GCDs after the pull is the perfect time to turn on tank stance.

It depends on the tank. As a WAR, I find that the "OT with tank stance on" usually bounces back and forth for the first 3 GCDs due to needing to set up Eye before my burst (which isn't a BIG deal but annoys melee). I can't say I'm familiar with the current openers of the other tanks since I only tank on WAR, but they all have oGCDs and get into their opener fairly quick compared to WAR afaik. Alternatively, I wouldn't want to turn on Defiance right before I light it up with IR/IC spam, that's about guaranteed to pull off the MT. So I usually wait until IR is over with before turning it back on, then I'll try to turn it on about 10 seconds before any swap in case the MT is late with shirk. Lucy's advice of waiting 30-45 seconds is solid compared to waiting 3-5 GCDs.

The other stuff about burst openers is irrelevant other than having a better idea of which tanks might need to delay turning on their stance (within the context of the OP's question).

So yea, wait for burst openers to be done before turning it on. If you need to specifically be 2nd in aggro for the fight because mechanics (E3S, for example), what I would do is Provoke after 3 GCDs (no stance), as going in to burst without stance will keep you 2nd long enough for that to be over, then you can turn on your stance at some point later once the MT has a sufficient lead. On the flip side, if you're MT and about to swap, I've been trying to turn off stance before the swap so that it's a clean swap. I few times I left it on and ended up going into a burst phase and pulling the boss back, so I just try to work it in a little early in case something comes up, or maybe the other tank forgets to put their stance on, etc.

[VenKitsune]

First of all, there's a lot wrong in this statement. WAR actually has the highest opening burst of all the tanks, not DRK. The two are relatively close but WAR does surpass it. Other than that, no, you don't turn your stance on that early as OT. The only time your stance should be on that soon as OT is if the boss auto attacks the #1 and #2 targets on aggro such as Leviathan savage. Otherwise, however, the OT should start the fight with their stance turned off and only turn it on around 30-45 seconds into the fight, which is enough time that both tanks will be completely finished with their opening burst phases and that by turning your stance on immediately after that point you will give the MT a large enough aggro lead that it is more or less impossible to rip aggro off of them.

i mean...yes and no? Provided both tanks are of similar gear and skill, turning on your stance 3-5 GCDs in wont matter because you'll BOTH be doing your burst at the same time, and they were the ones that pulled with the ranged ability, that just so happens to have an agro multiplier on it.

[Vahlnir]

As an OT it is best to turn it on only after the MT has established aggro, and even then it is usually best to leave it off for the most part. One thing I tend to do though is turn it back on every now and then, do a few rotations and then turn it back off to help keep myself as the boss' next target should the MT die. What annoys me is the tanks that enter, put on their stance and stand there expecting the other to do something. From my perspective, if you've got the stance on and are not removing it before the pull then I'm going to assume that you want to MT. If nothing happens after a short time has passed I will take matters into my own hands, but it is one of those little annoyances for me I guess.

[Duskane]

Normally i leave it off till a little after opener/burst since WAR/DRK/GNB can easily
Juggle aggro
Aurora can be a Aggro sucker too if for some reason you pop it on yourself with stance