One shot mechanics in Normal Raids

[Elladie]

I was expecting this thread to pop up because E7, while a very cool fight even in normal (and I haven 't had any difficulty nor failed the mechanic), is poorly designed for party play.

Indeed, in order for the boss to proceed smoothly, it requires most players in the group to actually understand the mechanic. While you can explain stuff, sadly, some people lack the intellect or are simply too slow to understand what stuff is about in P2, even after countless tries and even after lengthily explanations. When those people are the healers and or the people with the BR, there is no way your group can clear. Even when the people who understand the mechanic can BR, they spend most of their time raising the same people during the fight and it becomes really bumpy.

What SE needs is to stop designing fights in entry level difficulty tier such as the whole team must have homogeneous skill level. While it is (kinda) fine for organized play (even though I don't really agree), it isn't in PuG where you cannot control who will join your group. You need to have room in the party for good players who will teach players and players that are less competent or learning. Group content should be about the group communicating and play as a team to complete the content, not 8 distinct individuals having to each jump on their own in hoops and being a hindrance should they fail (basically what E7 is during gate + light/dark debuff mechanic).

It's not a question of intellect or not understanding the mechanic, at least in my case. I have three university degrees, and I grasp the concept of what is happening very well. But I have directional dyslexia - I cannot process directional instructions - and this mechanic is almost impossible for me. I am unable to distinguish left from right or the cardinal points of the compass from each other, and trying to do this in a stressful situation scrambles my brain. Something like this - where I'm required to compute the correct place to stand based on information coming from (literally) two different directions is impossible for me. At least at the speed required in a raid battle. In RL I dread being asked for directions as I am unable to give these coherently, so I'm sure you can imagine how very hard this fight is for me.

I'm very lucky to have a group of friends to do stuff like this with, they understand my disability and are incredible patient. We can also communicate via voice which is a huge bonus.

My point is, don't assume someone is stupid because they're struggling. And doing this with a group you know and can communicate with via voice most definitely makes a huge difference. We still wiped several times while everyone else was figuring it out, but we did clear it within the allotted time

[tdb]

It's not a question of intellect or not understanding the mechanic, at least in my case. I have three university degrees, and I grasp the concept of what is happening very well. But I have directional dyslexia - I cannot process directional instructions - and this mechanic is almost impossible for me. I am unable to distinguish left from right or the cardinal points of the compass from each other, and trying to do this in a stressful situation scrambles my brain. Something like this - where I'm required to compute the correct place to stand based on information coming from (literally) two different directions is impossible for me. At least at the speed required in a raid battle. In RL I dread being asked for directions as I am unable to give these coherently, so I'm sure you can imagine how very hard this fight is for me.

Let me try to provide instructions which depend on directions as little as possible. When the mechanic starts, first look at which debuff you get, either dark or light. Then look at the boss. When the swarms appear, move in front of one that is the opposite color to your debuff. Now turn to look at the side with two portals (it's the opposite side from where the boss is). Take note of the color of the portal you are standing in front of, either red or blue. Finally turn to look at the side with four portals. Move sideways until you are standing in front of a portal which is the opposite color of the previous step. You are now standing in a spot where you can safely take the first two hits from the mechanic. The last hit will happen without any portals so just move in front of a swarm of the opposite color to your debuff.

I'm not sure exactly how bad your disability is, but if "sideways" proves problematic I can reformulate the explanation so that it only uses "towards <something>". The grid on the playfield may also prove useful.

Normal mode does not have an enrage, so feel free to stop using abilities so you can get a good look at what's happening.

[Stanelis]

It's not a question of intellect or not understanding the mechanic, at least in my case. I have three university degrees, and I grasp the concept of what is happening very well. But I have directional dyslexia - I cannot process directional instructions - and this mechanic is almost impossible for me. I am unable to distinguish left from right or the cardinal points of the compass from each other, and trying to do this in a stressful situation scrambles my brain. Something like this - where I'm required to compute the correct place to stand based on information coming from (literally) two different directions is impossible for me. At least at the speed required in a raid battle. In RL I dread being asked for directions as I am unable to give these coherently, so I'm sure you can imagine how very hard this fight is for me.

I'm very lucky to have a group of friends to do stuff like this with, they understand my disability and are incredible patient. We can also communicate via voice which is a huge bonus.

My point is, don't assume someone is stupid because they're struggling. And doing this with a group you know and can communicate with via voice most definitely makes a huge difference. We still wiped several times while everyone else was figuring it out, but we did clear it within the allotted time

I'm not telling people are stupid or giving judgment but making a case for situations like yours. Not everyone can process information at the same speed, yet E7 clearly check your ability to process information and the speed at which you do so. It seems lmore like a mechanic designed by a computer scientist, designed to be solved in an algorithmic way, than a mechanic designed by a game designer.

Who said it's designed for people with low skill level? Lower skill level than what is needed for Savage, certainly, but optional content at max level is not necessarily for low skill level.

SE did after people complained in ARR because they couldn't experience the story of the coil of bahamut.

[Tlamila]

SE did after people complained in ARR because they couldn't experience the story of the coil of bahamut.

I don't know about the rest (I haven't even done the fights yet) but this is very true. Normal mode raids were born exactly so that anybody could experience the raids story without difficulty, instead of just making them hard end game content like Coil was, and making savages so that people who wanted difficulty could have that.
So in theory, by design, they are supposed to be accessible to everybody.

Honestly I'd be happier if harder content didn't come with important lore/story attached, so that those who enjoy the challenge can have it without compromise and those who don't but just don't wanna miss on story wouldn't be pretty much forced into more challenging content.

[linay]

SE did after people complained in ARR because they couldn't experience the story of the coil of bahamut.

No, they didn't. They lowered the skill required for Normal, but that doesn't mean it's for low skill level or there would never be a wipe in Normal, which there is often enough.

[Stanelis]

No, they didn't. They lowered the skill required for Normal, but that doesn't mean it's for low skill level or there would never be a wipe in Normal, which there is often enough.

Yes they did. Anyway the discussion isn't necessarily about difficulty but rather about how this particular mechanic is designed. 2020 and gamers still are unable to discuss ingame mechanics in MMORPG beyond simple "it s too hard" or "it is too easy" as if we still were in 2010 during WOTLK, no wonder why MMO are so poorly designed nowadays. Furthermore, no need to be a genius to tell the gap between the other encounters (that you can sleepwalk through) and E7.

[spf1200]

ya heaven forbid a raid require any thought.

[TwiibieTwuu]

I like having a bit of a challenge to overcome in a raid/dungeon. Otherwise it's just burn boss and healspam.

Only con comes from salty players.

Kinda hope they add more challenging bosses in new msq dungeons.

[Kuroka]

No, we need more of em. Just look at Deltascape... the poor succubus cant even pull us into her pocket dimension anymore. Time will settle this, if its too hard for now, you gotta do it later. We need at least some stuff to keep the bar up or even raise it. And yes I did said fight with an FC member today, after her first try got abandoned, we took good 40 min or smt but we managed. The succes was worth the work, even if i cant get loot anymore.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

The portals give you a fair deal of time to see what attacks are going where.