One shot mechanics in Normal Raids

[Kuroka]

No, we need more of em. Just look at Deltascape... the poor succubus cant even pull us into her pocket dimension anymore. Time will settle this, if its too hard for now, you gotta do it later. We need at least some stuff to keep the bar up or even raise it. And yes I did said fight with an FC member today, after her first try got abandoned, we took good 40 min or smt but we managed. The succes was worth the work, even if i cant get loot anymore.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

The portals give you a fair deal of time to see what attacks are going where.

[Genz]

One-shot mechanics are a lazy solution to give an appearance of difficulty, because the devs can't do anything else : healers are too powerful, and healers have to be powerful because it's easier to balance and easier to play. And the jobs have to be easy to play because the game is awfully bad at teaching its players how to play.

(as a side note : one-shot in RPG have always been an error, because they simply cancel/bypass all character growth and customisation systems. But there isn't anything of the sort to cancel in FFXIV)

One-shots also create their share of problems :
- they have to be slow. When it relies too much on it, the whole fight become boringly slow and, per consequent, easy.
- Healers can't do anything about one-shot and vulnerability debuff. Over reliance on them removes meaning in the healer role. We become simple spectators.

PS : About E7 specifically, there is first and foremost a blatant design error with the mechanic explained in the status effect description...

[Divinemights]

I heard that a lot from WoW raiders....
They are complaining while they need every freaking adding to help them beat encounter mechanics

[Mavrias]

Good Morning Everyone,

So right now I'm stuck on E7. Just watched a guide on it as well before entering. The raid is fun minus one mechanic and its just frustrating and not fun for normal.

The raid does fine till we get to the light/dark phase combined with the portals. But when the 2nd wave comes through the portal, half of the raid is dead and we can never recover. The group is usually saying they cannot react fast enough while trying to think where they need to stand for the light/dark wave to come through the portals.

It's a little frustrating at this point as I just spend 60 minutes wiping on it. I don't understand why a one shot mechanic is even put into this. Why couldn't it be a vul stack like it normally is when a mechanic is not done correctly.

I can see one shot mechanics in Savage but this is the first time I can remember being frustrated over a normal raid.

I'm thinking once I finally clear this to just avoid the fight all together.

Thank you for taking to time to listen to my rant. I would like to personally see it change from a one shot mechanic to a vul stack but how do you feel about it? Seems too punishing for a fast reacting mechanic.

It already is a vuln + heavy damage. Its just so heavy that you'll likely die if you're not a tank.

[tdb]

(as a side note : one-shot in RPG have always been an error, because they simply cancel/bypass all character growth and customisation systems. But there isn't anything of the sort to cancel in FFXIV)

Being able to level up endlessly and beat any boss with brute force is hardly stellar design either. But in computer RPGs it often happens because the world is more or less static; the boss has nowhere else to be so it will patiently wait while you beef yourself up. A live GM would invent some way to beef up the boss as well or otherwise have consequences to the players' tardiness, but a computer program does not have imagination and can't respond to the player deviating from the expected course. One-shot mechanics are a method for game developers to keep the boss relevant no matter the player's power level.

As an aside, role-playing in computer games seems to have become conflated with numerical stat development. If a game has "RPG elements" it usually means the player can assign points into a handful of stats. Actual player-influenced character personality and development are seen very rarely.

[Canada_bangs]

I have no issues with one shot mechanics and perfer more of them. Maybe my opinion will change once I hit the 80's but currently I don't see a problem with them. It's the fastest way to learn I think. Make a wrong move boom death.

[Risvertasashi]

I have no issues with one shot mechanics and perfer more of them. Maybe my opinion will change once I hit the 80's but currently I don't see a problem with them. It's the fastest way to learn I think. Make a wrong move boom death.

From a healer's standpoint, honestly, a lot of the time I do too. It drives home "hey this is important, don't just ignore it and leave the healer to deal with it."

Vuln stacks, ironically, punish the healer for others' mistakes. "Hey this person messed up, now you have to heal them more."

[Stanelis]

But that's how it already works. I did E7 a couple of hours ago, and while the group wiped three times, each time I gave instructions on what to do with that mechanic and each time people did better. Eventually we succeeded. It's just that every once in a while there's a group with a sufficient concentration of badness that the duty cannot be completed. In such cases it's best to just abandon and try again with a new group. It's impossible to design content so that any group, no matter how inept, can pass it, while simultaneously maintaining even a modicum of interest.

That s basically my point here, the solution to the problem shouldn't bbe to give up on the group and try again while hoping the people who can't adjust are "weeded out". Because it is how it is in E7, people who aren't fast enough to pick on thing will never get it.

Also, yes, they can design content where anyone can fit if there are different roles in the group (eg not making everyone handle the same mechanic at the same time, as it is the case in E7). When everything was about wow raiding in 2006-2008, endgame raids where specifically designed so the players had complete control on who did handle specific mechanics during the encounter (or at least that not everybody had to deal with X mechanic at the same moment). People who were learning could observe somebody who knew the mechanic so they could learn how it was done and people could actually coach players on how to handle a specific mechanic. Kael Thas in tempest keep comes to mind with this specific design, where a lot of players had to deal with specific (different) stuff.

Furthermore, my point isn't that all the content should be doable at any skill level, but that raids in story mode specifically designed for people with low skill level definitely should.

[linay]

raids in story mode specifically designed for people with low skill level definitely should.

Who said it's designed for people with low skill level? Lower skill level than what is needed for Savage, certainly, but optional content at max level is not necessarily for low skill level.

It's that kind of attitude that makes LFR in WoW harder than it needs to be when people underestimate its difficulty and ignore mechanics, causing wipes and then people just leave to be carried by the next party instead of learning the fight.