One shot mechanics in Normal Raids

[Avidria]

That fight was definitely one of the trickier ones... Hardest part for me was predicting the few steps ahead you kinda need to when you have the dark/light on top of the portals. Because iirc... You need to look at your color, and match the opposite color bird swarm. But also look at what portal your birds are going into, because your color is going to swap and you'll need to be on the OPPOSITE portal color to avoid the damage.

...I'm gonna need to do it again to make sure I actually have that right but it took like three wipes for me to be like OH that's what's happening.

I actually really like the fight though, even if it hurt my head a little the first time through maybe it could be more forgiving, but I think it'll be a little easier once more people see and learn it. And as more guides get put together.

[seraf]

This game has to have some sort of content that actually pushes the average player to try to better themselves. I wish we had 1 shot mechanics similar to Normal Raids in current Expert Dungeons as well. Once you get to endgame content you should be able to understand all basic mechanics and know your role/job well enough to learn from mistakes after just a few attempts.

I went into the Edenverse normal raids completely blind and yes I did die to things but after seeing them once or twice I knew exactly what to do. I enjoy these type of fights because even if you know what to do you can still mess up and pay the consequences of failure. Something I wish this game did more in all content not just Raids.

[Elladie]

This game has to have some sort of content that actually pushes the average player to try to better themselves. I wish we had 1 shot mechanics similar to Normal Raids in current Expert Dungeons as well. Once you get to endgame content you should be able to understand all basic mechanics and know your role/job well enough to learn from mistakes after just a few attempts.

I went into the Edenverse normal raids completely blind and yes I did die to things but after seeing them once or twice I knew exactly what to do. I enjoy these type of fights because even if you know what to do you can still mess up and pay the consequences of failure. Something I wish this game did more in all content not just Raids.

Mechanics this difficult are fine in optional raids and optional dungeons. Which Eden is. They should not be added to mandatory content (i.e. solo MSQ duties and MSQ dungeons)

[tdb]

Far as I can tell the portal colors are always the same, with red on the left and blue on the right. So that removes one thing to check every time. Probably the portals on the side are always in the same order as well.

[Stanelis]

I was expecting this thread to pop up because E7, while a very cool fight even in normal (and I haven 't had any difficulty nor failed the mechanic), is poorly designed for party play.

Indeed, in order for the boss to proceed smoothly, it requires most players in the group to actually understand the mechanic. While you can explain stuff, sadly, some people lack the intellect or are simply too slow to understand what stuff is about in P2, even after countless tries and even after lengthily explanations. When those people are the healers and or the people with the BR, there is no way your group can clear. Even when the people who understand the mechanic can BR, they spend most of their time raising the same people during the fight and it becomes really bumpy.

What SE needs is to stop designing fights in entry level difficulty tier such as the whole team must have homogeneous skill level. While it is (kinda) fine for organized play (even though I don't really agree), it isn't in PuG where you cannot control who will join your group. You need to have room in the party for good players who will teach players and players that are less competent or learning. Group content should be about the group communicating and play as a team to complete the content, not 8 distinct individuals having to each jump on their own in hoops and being a hindrance should they fail (basically what E7 is during gate + light/dark debuff mechanic).

[tdb]

What SE needs is to stop designing fights in entry level difficulty tier such as the whole team must have homogeneous skill level. While it is (kinda) fine for organized play (even though I don't really agree), it isn't in PuG where you cannot control who will join your group. You need to have room in the party for good players who will teach players and players that are less competent or learning. Group content should be about the group communicating and play as a team to complete the content, not 8 distinct individuals having to each jump on their own in hoops and being a hindrance should they fail (basically what E7 is during gate + light/dark debuff mechanic).

But that's how it already works. I did E7 a couple of hours ago, and while the group wiped three times, each time I gave instructions on what to do with that mechanic and each time people did better. Eventually we succeeded. It's just that every once in a while there's a group with a sufficient concentration of badness that the duty cannot be completed. In such cases it's best to just abandon and try again with a new group. It's impossible to design content so that any group, no matter how inept, can pass it, while simultaneously maintaining even a modicum of interest.

[Stanelis]

But that's how it already works. I did E7 a couple of hours ago, and while the group wiped three times, each time I gave instructions on what to do with that mechanic and each time people did better. Eventually we succeeded. It's just that every once in a while there's a group with a sufficient concentration of badness that the duty cannot be completed. In such cases it's best to just abandon and try again with a new group. It's impossible to design content so that any group, no matter how inept, can pass it, while simultaneously maintaining even a modicum of interest.

That s basically my point here, the solution to the problem shouldn't bbe to give up on the group and try again while hoping the people who can't adjust are "weeded out". Because it is how it is in E7, people who aren't fast enough to pick on thing will never get it.

Also, yes, they can design content where anyone can fit if there are different roles in the group (eg not making everyone handle the same mechanic at the same time, as it is the case in E7). When everything was about wow raiding in 2006-2008, endgame raids where specifically designed so the players had complete control on who did handle specific mechanics during the encounter (or at least that not everybody had to deal with X mechanic at the same moment). People who were learning could observe somebody who knew the mechanic so they could learn how it was done and people could actually coach players on how to handle a specific mechanic. Kael Thas in tempest keep comes to mind with this specific design, where a lot of players had to deal with specific (different) stuff.

Furthermore, my point isn't that all the content should be doable at any skill level, but that raids in story mode specifically designed for people with low skill level definitely should.

[linay]

raids in story mode specifically designed for people with low skill level definitely should.

Who said it's designed for people with low skill level? Lower skill level than what is needed for Savage, certainly, but optional content at max level is not necessarily for low skill level.

It's that kind of attitude that makes LFR in WoW harder than it needs to be when people underestimate its difficulty and ignore mechanics, causing wipes and then people just leave to be carried by the next party instead of learning the fight.

[Tsukino]

This is not a one-shot mechanic. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread.

A one-shot mechanic will kill you (everyone) in one hit. Not only have I never seen everyone die to this at once, I also got smacked with one of the effects (as a DD not a tank) but not both and easily got healed up by other people and didn't die. That is, at the very least, a mechanic that requires two "shots" to do you in.

One-shot mechanics in other fights are like failing Landslides on Titan - you mess up the mechanic and you fall off the arena, knocking you out in one hit, one failure on your part.

[Gemina]

This is not a one-shot mechanic. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread.

A one-shot mechanic will kill you (everyone) in one hit. Not only have I never seen everyone die to this at once, I also got smacked with one of the effects (as a DD not a tank) but not both and easily got healed up by other people and didn't die. That is, at the very least, a mechanic that requires two "shots" to do you in.

One-shot mechanics in other fights are like failing Landslides on Titan - you mess up the mechanic and you fall off the arena, knocking you out in one hit, one failure on your part.

One shots only need to kill one player. A mechanic that wipes everyone is a reset. Either way, that mechanic will indeed one shot someone at the minimum ilv requirement, and it most certainly will if you have a vuln down debuff. It also causes knockback, and can toss you over the ledge. One shot.