One shot mechanics in Normal Raids

[Tsukino]

I found another video where I could see some damage numbers and it does indeed seem to deal unsurvivable amounts of damage if you stand in the wrong color. I was maybe thinking of the damage amount of the mechanic where there's only white swarms. So fair enough, let's call it a one-shot.

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I was sure I survived some, and now I know that the unaspected ones are survivable while the astral/umbral portion is a one-shot mechanic.

[Kraniel]

Let me see if I can clear this up.

If you get by the wrong umbral/astral effect with vuln^, it hits you for over 200k damage and causes knockback. Not even a tank will survive it.

If you get by the wrong astral/umbral effect without a vuln^ (this can only happen at the start of the phase), it won't kill you if at near full health, but it still causes the knockback, and can send you off.

When the umbral/astral debuffs are not in effect and you just have to worry about the order of the portals, the attack just hits you for high damage and puts a vuln^ stack on you. Most players will survive this if at full health, and tanks will easily brush it off.

The mechanic is not a true one-shot, but after the boss uses its ultimate and combines both umbral/astral and portal, it's either live or die.

Ah right, that makes sense now. I forgot about the auras. In that sense, OP is right, it is indeed an insta-death mechanic.
Nevertheless, i don't think it should be really that frustrating. You basically have to die to it once to realize that you need to stand in front of the birds of the opposite color, and then it's just that + the portal mechanic, that you have already dealt with before as well. The boss gives you plenty of time to react to this specific mechanic and choose the right spot, so as long as you pay attention to it, it should really be no issue.

As i said, i personally enjoy the fact that even in normal mode, the game punishes me for not understanding the mechanics correctly.
If you can just ignore all your mistakes and bruteforce through the encounter with Vulnerability stacks, then it's pretty much like the fight never existed in my opinion.

For instance, i cleared E5 on my first try, with everyone in the party alive, and to be 100% honest i now have absolutely no idea/recollection of what the mechanics actually are. I can't say i really enjoyed the fight since there was no challenge at all.

In that regard, i think E7 is really well-balanced.
But then again that's just my opinion ...

[Frizze]

The same thing is true for E8 when I see people constantly getting stunned by Redress or running out for Holy when they don’t have to.

So the first week, this one consistently got me because i had my camera set where i couldnt see the dont look icon(and the name of the attack didnt register with me). This week, i dodged it every time. But i was also looking away and stopping DPS on a couple of Redress moves that didnt seem to have the dont look mechanic attached. Ill need another week or two to say that i completely understand this mechanic. Problem is, ive gotten my preferred loot first try both weeks and i see no point in grinding the fight to understand this one mechanic(and i guess have enough shots at the mini to actually win one).

[LalaRu]

Finally did the full 4 fights yesterday.

Looking at this thread, I were expecting something terrible savage-like thing. It wasn't.

Sure thing, the difficulty bar has clearly gone up. But all the mechanics aren't that difficult or so terrible: after a number of times you get them and after you get a bit used to them, a casual can go thru with just some hit here and there.

Yes, there will be people dying, but the fight itself is lenient and you can progress without much worry and people can recover from sickness without hitting hard dps checks.

On top of that, when the casual will be better geared thanks to the tomes and relics, there will be less dying and more mechanics can be healed thru even when you fail them, so the "one shot mechanics" of the topic, with time, will be less and less relevant.

At the end, I think the full set of Eden Verse is still something doable by casuals even if the difficulty bar has been clearly raised up.

[WK74648]

I'd have to ask to OP, what was your iLvl when you were doing this raid ? Did you have any Vulnerability debuff stacks on when you took the damage ? Were you full health ?

Hiya. Yeah I was at full health with 100k. Item level around 474. I still got killed in one hit with no vul debuffs. I've seen tanks with 140k health get hit and die in one hit and not because of the knockback.

Figure I give everyone an update on how this week went. Much better. When I came home from work and logged in I qued up for all 4. E7 was one shotted but we had an healer who knew the mechanics and was doing an amazing job. The other healer still struggled with the light/dark combined and so did one of the tanks. I got hit by one of the wrong colors cause i spaced out for a second and couldn't remember what color i had to switch to. Other than that all the other mechanics went well.

I'm really grateful for everyone's feedback on the matter and keeping it to a friendly conversation. When I first made this thread I wasn't asking for the mechanic to change but the punishment of it to make it consistent with the first part where there is only white birds flying at you. I'm still not a fan of it being a one shot mechanic if you get hit by the wrong color, but I do understand it better. I may adjust my job and bring my red mage over my dragoon so I can help healers rez for those who still get hit by it.

Thanks again everyone.

[Vaer]

So the first week, this one consistently got me because i had my camera set where i couldnt see the dont look icon(and the name of the attack didnt register with me). This week, i dodged it every time. But i was also looking away and stopping DPS on a couple of Redress moves that didnt seem to have the dont look mechanic attached. Ill need another week or two to say that i completely understand this mechanic. Problem is, ive gotten my preferred loot first try both weeks and i see no point in grinding the fight to understand this one mechanic(and i guess have enough shots at the mini to actually win one).

It only seems to stun when changing to light in normal, which makes sense. The Redress from Light to Ice doesn't. The eye denoting it is still there, it's just above her where the nameplate is so it is kind of hidden.

[AnonymousBard]

Unless there are extra complexities I haven't noticed yet (having only cleared it tonight), figuring out where to stand for the portals + dark/light is a two-step process.

1. Portals appear - pick a square either side of the centre; it doesn't matter which for now. Make sure the portal behind you and to the side are different colours.

2. Dark/light beams appear - are you on the right side? If not, move diagonally to another square on the other side of the centre line.

The key element is to have different-coloured portals to your side and back.

Ah,

Thats the part thats been smoking me. I get the whole Umbral/Astral thing but I've been scratching my head on the portals. I couldnt seem to figure out if the colors represented the umbral/astral attackes. Like Blue = White / Red = Pruple. So i thought i had to predict like two steps ahead. Like if im Astral, i gotta stand in front of Umbral, but then that means ill change to umbral so i also gotta be lined up with a blue/astral portal. But you're saying that i just need to be in front of the right color but also make sure the portals behind and beside me are different colors? Like if im astral, i stand in front of umbral, but i also got to make sure that im standing to where either its a blue behind and red to my side, or red behind and blue to my side? As long as theyre not the same?

[Melichoir]

These fights arent hard. Im not saying people should be able to clear them first try, but the mechanics introduced in the fights arent ground breaking mechanics, nor are they difficult if you just think about what you have to accomplish. Beyond this, yes go look at guides. Even for casual content. Refusing to look up information that could help you play the game better cause "It's casual" is stupid as hell. If you dont know something, and you cant figure it out, instead of whinging about how hard it is and how it should change for you, stop thinking it's beneath you to look up a guide and study up a bit. Youll be better off for it.

[Iscah]

Ah,

Thats the part thats been smoking me. I get the whole Umbral/Astral thing but I've been scratching my head on the portals. I couldnt seem to figure out if the colors represented the umbral/astral attackes. Like Blue = White / Red = Pruple. So i thought i had to predict like two steps ahead. Like if im Astral, i gotta stand in front of Umbral, but then that means ill change to umbral so i also gotta be lined up with a blue/astral portal. But you're saying that i just need to be in front of the right color but also make sure the portals behind and beside me are different colors? Like if im astral, i stand in front of umbral, but i also got to make sure that im standing to where either its a blue behind and red to my side, or red behind and blue to my side? As long as theyre not the same?

That's right. You're thinking the right way in that you need to be hit by a different-coloured beam each time, but the portal colour has no direct relevance to the beam colour. The portals just predictably transport the beams so they emerge out of a side portal of the same colour.

Basically, you want the second beam (emerging from the side) to be a different colour to the first one that went into the portal behind you.

I explained it more step-by-step in this post.

(I think having played Portal helps you quickly get your head around how the portals work. It's the same logic and the game is based around working with more complex portal arrangements than this.)

[AnonymousBard]

That's right. You're thinking the right way in that you need to be hit by a different-coloured beam each time, but the portal colour has no direct relevance to the beam colour. The portals just predictably transport the beams so they emerge out of a side portal of the same colour.

Basically, you want the second beam (emerging from the side) to be a different colour to the first one that went into the portal behind you.

I explained it more step-by-step in this post.

(I think having played Portal helps you quickly get your head around how the portals work. It's the same logic and the game is based around working with more complex portal arrangements than this.)

Very cool. Thanks a lot, you've made my Iconoclasm runs much more enjoyable!