Problem with Pugs??

[Honz]

Victimize II on how much TP?
Is it the same with ARC if you use it at 2000?
Is it worth comparing with other class abilities who come out faster because they consume less TP?

Usually 3000 tp Victimize II, with invigorate i come close to 3k if not already at it. Setup works for me because my LS does full BRs only every minute. Invigorate is awesome since you don't have to hit to get the TP boost

Arc has no 3k tp moves worth while, Bloodletter is 1k, Barrage is 1.5k tp

Never use maim as Mrd not worth it and I've almost never see our Lancers use Chaos thrust in BRs.

[darkstarpoet1]

Victimize II on how much TP?
Is it the same with ARC if you use it at 2000?
Is it worth comparing with other class abilities who come out faster because they consume less TP?

yes victimize does use more tp, but you also have to remember pug gains tp super fast with both flurry and pummel so the tp difference is about the same amount of attacks to use each skill.

[Drexel]

Usually 3000 tp Victimize II, with invigorate i come close to 3k if not already at it. Setup works for me because my LS does full BRs only every minute. Invigorate is awesome since you don't have to hit to get the TP boost

Arc has no 3k tp moves worth while, Bloodletter is 1k, Barrage is 1.5k tp

Never use maim as Mrd not worth it and I've almost never see our Lancers use Chaos thrust in BRs.

Since you seem to have most of your battle classes pretty damn high, what WS do you feal are worth using cross class as a pugilist? Maim, bloodletter, Barrage. Im sure they would be better with the job traits too. Either way what is gimp and what is worth cross classing?

[Honz]

Since you seem to have most of your battle classes pretty damn high, what WS do you feal are worth using cross class as a pugilist? Maim, bloodletter, Barrage. Im sure they would be better with the job traits too. Either way what is gimp and what is worth cross classing?

To be honest nothing, a full 3k tp Victimize II is your best friend on NMs. My fights kind of go like this, invigorate > heavy strike > flurry > flurry to 3k tp should be time for BRs, ready all buffs Blindside II, Ferocity II, Raging Strike II, Hawk's Eye, Murderous Intent. If your thms where doing their jobs the NM should be fully debuffed meaning your Victimize should probably crit go as last in BR and you should see how Pugs are not sub-par DDs like everyone thinks. You could always use Cadence instead of Hawk's Eye is its not up yet.

As far as weapon skills go just stick to good old Victimize. Oh I forgot to mention one thing, Storm's path from mrd is a godly aoe skill for aoe tanking if you're ever asked to do that.

[Kazimir]

First of all, Simian Thrash would be EVERYBODY'S main WS if it was not reliant on evasion, so it's understood and was a good move imo. Secondly, having a monster miss you is different than you evading and attack, and therefore, jarring strike and haymaker only proc when you evade, that's just how it works. I enjoy the way PUG plays, as it can have a few different play styles, dependent on what traits and actions you use.

Simian Thrash should be our main WS. Every other melee class has one, why shouldn't we? And Simian Thrash doesn't even out damage some other classes WS's. Have you tried using it on an NM? It's incredibly weak compared to our other WS's, it's mostly just good on normal mobs.

[Akuun]

Simian Thrash should be our main WS. Every other melee class has one, why shouldn't we? And Simian Thrash doesn't even out damage some other classes WS's. Have you tried using it on an NM? It's incredibly weak compared to our other WS's, it's mostly just good on normal mobs.

I think the main thing here is that this skill is designed more for holding hate than simply out damaging.
If you're the tank and you're focused on how much damage you are doing you fail.
It's about hate control, not damage.

[Kazimir]

I think the main thing here is that this skill is designed more for holding hate than simply out damaging.
If you're the tank and you're focused on how much damage you are doing you fail.
It's about hate control, not damage.

I realize this, but my problem is they made our highest obtainable ability one that is only useful for tanking, when we are used as a DPS class and only an off-tank on rare occasions. The only time Simian Thrash has been useful for me is when my LS is doing the Buffalo NM and I need to knock off one of the horns. The only problem is you can't do that while tanking. Doesn't make much sense does it?

They made this class into a wanna be evasion tank with all sorts of tanking abilities yet we're not even close to being useful as one. Anything difficult hits us for far too much dmg and anything easier could be tanked by anyone. They need to give us more offensive based abilities, get rid of Simian Thrash's evasion requirement, up the damage and give up on this fantasy that we'll be useful as a tank when any LS with at least 2 GLA's will never use a PUG for tanking.

[Akuun]

My LS has like 3-4 gla all of them wearing the best gear you can get, yet i'm still asked to tank simply cause pug holds hate better than any other class atm.

Yoshi-p has also already stated that he plans to make each class more specialized, so you're simply beating a dead horse