Delete Clemency and Vercure

[Jennah]

Clemency is great in 4-man content. If the healer dies, you can keep yourself and at least one dps up. And it has *some* use in really big pulls with undergeared healers, as a "oops, sorry, I'm out of other cooldowns" thing.
I agree, Paladins who spam it should be burned at the stake, though.

[ElHeggunte]

They're wrong with not trusting, they don't know which oGCD's the healer has ready. Unless healer let the party get wiped before.

I hope they remove all DPS abilities from healers. I feel bad when I see them helping kill a boss, like they think they can’t trust me to do it on my own. They don’t know what CDs I have up so unless we hit the enrage timer they should only be healing.

Oh no, wait. That would be absurd. Just like the entire premise of this thread is absurd.

[Ryaz]

Heck no. Paladins don't have self-sustains like Aura/Brutal Shell shield from GNB or Souleater from DRK. It's their only source of self-healing and it comes at a cost of DPS to use unlike the other tanks. Any PLD worth his salt won't use Clemency unless it's an emergency, like when a healer drops and DPS start eating unavoidable AoEs, or if the healer is pushing things too far (if I'm popping cooldowns and still ending up near death so the healer can spam Glare, I'm damned well going to start taking matters into my own hands to avoid a wipe). Its a trade-off to use and it's also a big part of the class identity. Even Paladins in D&D have healing skills. It doesn't diminish a healers role to have some support from a couple dps healing skills when things go south.

[Enla]

Right, might as well get rid of healers altogether.

Healers can't do anything if they're dead, or are you insisting the group wipe just so the healer can feel important? Self heals are fine, and I'm glad classes most classes have access to some form of small heal. Second Wind is a godsend in particular, as is Curing Waltz as a Dancer.

[SamRF]

At the same time you're basically asking on your first post for non healer jobs to lose the ability to heal other people because it hurts your ego as a healer.

Another thing you appear to have missed is the amount of healers out there that don't pay enough attention to actually healing when doing non raid content (and sometimes even during raids). Happens most often by my observations in 4 man duties due to the role being populated by someone that just wanted to dodge the DPS queue time. Because of this I tend to not trust a healer when tanking unless it's someone I know and will not hesitate to use clemency on PLD if I see my HP drop below a certain threshold.

I mean, in those cases you already have to be lucky to have a PLD or RDM in your party. They're just 1 job within their role, I doubt that 1 GCD targeted healing ability is even being considered when balancing the jobs, it's something redundant when it comes to group content, I'm guessing purely to satisfy the identity of those jobs. Perhaps they could change it to some other healing effect that is oGCD.

When it comes to you using Clemency after certain tress hold, unless the healer in question caused a wipe before, how can you possibly decide when it's the right time to cast clemency? You have to predict the heal cause you need time to cast the ability before you would die, so you're not taking healer oGCD's into account, which they can cast instantly. If you're using Requiescat instant cast then you're wasting even more dps by denying holy circle.

[AriaEnia]

Clemency has saved me many times before in expert dungeons when a healer died fighting bosses. I can keep the two dps alive without a healer just by doing clemency and kill the boss even from 70% hp, please don't remove clemency

[SamRF]

I hope they remove all DPS abilities from healers. I feel bad when I see them helping kill a boss, like they think they can’t trust me to do it on my own. They don’t know what CDs I have up so unless we hit the enrage timer they should only be healing.

Oh no, wait. That would be absurd. Just like the entire premise of this thread is absurd.

You need to lack HP in order to make efficient use of your heals. When it comes to doing dps you just want to do as much as possible, no matter the health remaining of boss (unless you start preparing for next pull for example). Healers who dps help the fight get finished faster while unnecessary Clemency/Vercure only stall the fight.

[SamRF]

Any PLD worth his salt won't use Clemency unless it's an emergency, like when a healer drops and DPS start eating unavoidable AoEs, or if the healer is pushing things too far (if I'm popping cooldowns and still ending up near death so the healer can spam Glare, I'm damned well going to start taking matters into my own hands to avoid a wipe).

How do you know the WHM didn't have Benediction ready and was planning to let you go as low as possible to instantly get you back full with that oGCD?

[LaylaTsarra]

Why I main WHM and RDM as a dps class for it's ability to dualcast raise and heal. Thank you SE for giving me a real healers dps class.

And ty for the rdm buff as well.

[Saefinn]

Very insulting as healer if you see RDM or PLD use Clemency/Vercure when you have everything under control. You're maximizing your dps as healer and thus put in some effort to efficiently heal to extend party will survive only to see the dps gain get completely wasted by that Vercure/Clemency.

As a healer I've never found it insulting. I don't think anything of it and some people just think they're being helpful. Sometimes it is.
As a healer, yes my job is boring as it is nowadays because of changes.
As a healer I'm not expecting other people to adjust how they play so I can have fun.
As a healer I want the devs to fix this problem because it's a problem with the job and how it relates to encounter design.

With Red Mage, I might agree in-so-far as if you don't need help, why are they sacrificing their DPS to heal? When I started out with RDM in Stormblood I was very guilty of letting my healer senses take over. When doing Susano Ex, I'd instinctively heal when it felt like people needed heals. My friend in the learning party banned me from using Vercure again, even if people were dying, not because of the healers having things under control but because of my DPS. Verraise was still permitted.

Heck PLD can still benefit from using Holy Circle or Spirit instead of Clemency to add DPS as that's what they could be using their MP for instead. But Divine Veil is also activated by a heal and heck, you might have tank busters coming or know damage is incoming but aren't 100% the healer has it under control, you might use it. You can't always know when the healer has things under control. You may lack confidence in your own abilities and just play things cautiously because you don't know when a tank buster is coming or how much damage enemies will do, so "play it safe" is their philosophy.


Or maybe those Red Mages and Paladins are former healers who left the role out of boredom but that healer part of them refuses to leave. Maybe they found their secret to not being bored when healing.


But the skills themselves, are very useful and have helped me clutch back fights when on PLD or RDM.