Delete Clemency and Vercure

[kaynide]

The "if you're not wiping everything is fine" mentality (also known as lul omg guiz itz jus a game tryhard stfu u don't pay my sub) is without a doubt the most toxic aspect of the entirety of ffxiv, PVP and high end raiding both included.

How so? Not wiping doesn’t mean playing piss poor, it means playing the game with the skills on my bar and not stressing if I can’t get that perfect 25 step drg combo down every time.

Not worrying about perfect form is a far cry from what you’re suggesting, I’m just sorry your feelings are hurting over other people stepping on your toes with their healing spells :/

[Veis_Alveare]

How so? Not wiping doesn’t mean playing piss poor, it means playing the game with the skills on my bar and not stressing if I can’t get that perfect 25 step drg combo down every time.

Not worrying about perfect form is a far cry from what you’re suggesting, I’m just sorry your feelings are hurting over other people stepping on your toes with their healing spells :/

You may not intend "not wiping = fine" to mean playing piss poor but you'd have to be willfully ignorant if you won't admit that this is used as the rationale to justify a fair bit more than imperfect play.

Dps not AoEing a large pull? Didn't wipe. Tank not using CDs? Didn't wipe. Healer just healbotting and contributing nothing? Welp, not wiping so that's also perfectly fine.

To be clear my feelings are just fine, I feel no ownership over any particular part of a group's success. Doing damage, mitigating and keeping the group alive are all everyone's responsibility, the only difference is as a healer I have more tools for one than the others. My issue is people not contributing to all three of these, specifically when they have so much more potential than I do to accomplish that. As an AST I'm not intended to be carrying all three of those facets to success.

If you reduce "success" to "clearing the instance before the timer runs down" you've effectively made all that pointless. I may as well stand still and do just enough healing to keep people alive through unavoidable damage with nothing else. That isn't a game I have any interest in for a variety of reasons, largest among them because I don't feel entitled to wasting the time of three other people.

That's what I'll be generous and say 80% of the Clemency casts I've seen are, and virtually 100% of the Vercures outside of dual cast proccing during forced downtime. They're wastes of everyone's time. We can and should do better.

[Ammokkx]

You may not intend "not wiping = fine" to mean playing piss poor but you'd have to be willfully ignorant if you won't admit that this is used as the rationale to justify a fair bit more than imperfect play.

Dps not AoEing a large pull? Didn't wipe. Tank not using CDs? Didn't wipe. Healer just healbotting and contributing nothing? Welp, not wiping so that's also perfectly fine.

To be clear my feelings are just fine, I feel no ownership over any particular part of a group's success. Doing damage, mitigating and keeping the group alive are all everyone's responsibility, the only difference is as a healer I have more tools for one than the others. My issue is people not contributing to all three of these, specifically when they have so much more potential than I do to accomplish that. As an AST I'm not intended to be carrying all three of those facets to success.

If you reduce "success" to "clearing the instance before the timer runs down" you've effectively made all that pointless. I may as well stand still and do just enough healing to keep people alive through unavoidable damage with nothing else. That isn't a game I have any interest in for a variety of reasons, largest among them because I don't feel entitled to wasting the time of three other people.

That's what I'll be generous and say 80% of the Clemency casts I've seen are, and virtually 100% of the Vercures outside of dual cast proccing during forced downtime. They're wastes of everyone's time. We can and should do better.

There's a difference between inefficiency that loses you a couple of seconds at best, and ones that lose you minutes worth of time per pull. Using your AoE on more than 2 mobs is basic courtesy because your efficiency goes up anywhere from 100% to 1000% (hyperbolically speaking) while Vercure/Clemency is 1 skill's worth of time loss, so you're in the single digits percent of efficiency loss.

People don't use these skills to go out of their way and make the gameplay experience slower for you. They're doing it because they have some reason, justified or not, to believe that if they don't heal, the healer won't be able to keep up by the end. Therefor, they figure that they'd best heal themselves to avoid a potential wipe and lose even more time than they lose by healing.

Perspective. Context. Don't be like OP and expect people to speedrun everything, because it's not only unrealistic to expect that level of communication from pubs, but it's also unrealistic to expect everyone to be of equal skill or insight to you.

[kaynide]

...

Look I’m not going to argue semantics with you. It’s pretty obvious from your post history you are part of the small percent of the game that focus on endgame content and speed running. You represent a percent of a percent, and I’m not going to tell you your way is wrong, because it is how you are having fun.

I would say telling others they also have to be at peak efficiency or they are pointless is a hell of a lot more toxic than anything I have said. You are essentially arguing that my (and a large majority of casuals) play-style is wrong. “Your fun is wrong” is a crap attitude to have. Good day.

[Veis_Alveare]

crap.

You are literally admitting forcing your playstyle on others is wrong while advocating for forcing your playstyle on others.

As I said with that comment about an FC running maps without a healer and just using PLD/RDM heals - yes, it's cringe, but if it's how they're having fun it doesn't harm anyone.

The difference is when you inflict something like that on other players who aren't interested in it with the added detriment of costing them some of the playtime they're paying for.

I enjoy this game but have a social life, a full time job and other hobbies. I don't need to take a few minutes onto repetitive content that most people are just doing for the carrot at the end of the stick anyways.

If you want to walk through Grand Cosmos and gpose, check out the scenery and enjoy the atmosphere (hey, it's pretty place!) by all means do so on your own time but if we're in a party the point is to move through the content. If you aren't going to do your best then leave and find people who want to put up with that cause it ain't me.

[kaynide]

You are literally admitting forcing your playstyle on others is wrong while advocating for forcing your playstyle on others...
If you aren't going to do your best then leave and find people who want to put up with that cause it ain't me

..I don't think you are grasping what I have been saying at all, and I'm sorry you either refuse to or can't.

I'll quote exactly what I said:
"If you are so worried about your roulette taking 1-2 minutes longer, you might have a deeper problem."
"Not wiping doesn’t mean playing piss poor, it means playing the game with the skills on my bar and not stressing if I can’t get that perfect 25 step drg combo down every time."

If you can't understand that I'm not saying "play crappy lolz", that's your issue. I'm sorry that you can't grasp that all I've been saying this entire time is "Your game play doesn't have to be perfect. There is room for suboptimal choices, and that's fun."

There's really nothing else I can possibly add to this, so again, Good Day.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

..I don't think you are grasping what I have been saying at all, and I'm sorry you either refuse to or can't.

I'll quote exactly what I said:
"If you are so worried about your roulette taking 1-2 minutes longer, you might have a deeper problem."
"Not wiping doesn’t mean playing piss poor, it means playing the game with the skills on my bar and not stressing if I can’t get that perfect 25 step drg combo down every time."

If you can't understand that I'm not saying "play crappy lolz", that's your issue. I'm sorry that you can't grasp that all I've been saying this entire time is "Your game play doesn't have to be perfect. There is room for suboptimal choices, and that's fun."

There's really nothing else I can possibly add to this, so again, Good Day.

What you said was “I have no qualms about wasting other people’s time for the sake of my own fun and equate spending a couple of hours working to improve my gameplay until I gain the muscle memory to allow things to go back to being as effortless as they were before, to long grueling hours of suffering that will make me want to stop playing.”

[kaynide]

What you said was “I have no qualms about wasting other people’s time for the sake of my own fun and equate spending a couple of hours working to improve my gameplay until I gain the muscle memory to allow things to go back to being as effortless as they were before, to long grueling hours of suffering that will make me want to stop playing.”

Did I, now?