Delete Clemency and Vercure

[Wiccan026]

Sorry this is ridiculous.

I don't like what they did to healers this expansion, the only one playable with any sort of enjoyment is white mage in my opinion, and so I gave up healing due to how I feel and no response to adjusting them. Ever since I made that call I've met way too many of what I consider "bad healers". I tend to not do my correct PAL DPS rotation because I've encountered one too many healers who let me die (while I was cycling my mitigation) because they thought they could heal me soon enough (I can't stand when healers wait until you're about to die to start healing, especially when I tank). So removing clemency would be ridiculous from that front.

Also sometimes, when running 24 mans alone, vercure is the only thing that kept me alive because healers weren't healing me even when I wasn't that far from them.

Sorry this gets a big NO from me.

[Enla]

As a healer main I quite love it when RDM, SMN, or PLD's help me out when things are going pear shaped. I had a Copied Factory run the other day where my co-healer couldn't stay alive for anything, so I had to carry the bulk of the healing while trying to raise them and a couple other people who bit the dust. We had three RDM and a SMN and while I was hard raising people some of them would help chip in with heals and the occasional dualcast raise and it honestly took a lot of stress off of my shoulders. So long as the RDM or PLD isn't sacrificing anything by helping out I really don't care if they do so. My ego isn't so big that I'd take it as some spurious insult either and frankly I question the maturity of anyone who does take it that harshly. So long as the RDM or PLD isn't being rude, who cares?

[WhiteArchmage]

*Opens thread, thinking: "Because it makes me feel bad that RDM and PLDs are trying to help/don't trust my heals?"*

I was not disappointed.

Indeed, while running Eden I've mostly wondered why more RDMs AREN'T using their Verheals? Both healers bit it, you have a raise, use it (Same goes for SMNs that don't seem to know what "Resurrection" is"). And if I overpull as a PLD and have run out of CDs while the healer is struggling, damn right I'll Clemency myself, also if I'm OT and need to use Divine Veil. By the time I tell a healer to use a heal on me I might as well just use Clemency.

As an aside, Red Mages identity is ability to use White and Black Magic, taking away their heals makes them a glorified BLM with extra elements and a sword. And Paladin was codified by their ability to use shields, Cover, and White Magic, so it's pretty much part of the job identity

[Krotoan]

They're wrong with not trusting, they don't know which oGCD's the healer has ready. Unless healer let the party get wiped before.

I think you're overthinking it a bit. Aside from a little annoyance and a teeny DPS loss it's really nothing to get in a froth about. For example Stuns get wasted all the time being double applied, I don't feel like we should limit them just to the tank.

[SamRF]

Is this a troll thread?

Either way: No, thanks - I'd very much like to keep my Clemency to be able to still clear content even if the healer bites the dust. We actually got our E6 NM clear on tuesday thanks to that - the healers kept dying left and right and in the end (boss at ~7% or so) we had a warrior, a dragoon and my paladin still standing and still made it thanks to clemency.

I get that there are healers out there who have everything under control - but I've seen far more healers who dont and part of the reason I play paladin is that I'm not at their mercy. I'm willing to trust them and only clemency under extreme circumstances, but I'd like to keep doing that - its part of what makes my job fun and engaging to me.
The solution for your problem shouldnt be to take something away from those jobs, but rather to communicate to your party that they can trust your healing and that you have everything under control. A good paladin or RDM wont want to use their healing spells unless in dire need - and with a good healer they wont have to. There are enough moments though that this good healer isnt around - dead, afk, left the party or you outright got someone who lets you die to the last boss of the new dungeon after you trusted that they knew what they were doing...
Another solution for this problem would be to make healers more engaging again - not to take away from other jobs.

I've tried several times to tell players to not use Clemency but they always took offense and started getting defense or didn't respond and continued to use it. My wording was along the lines of "please don't use Clemency" or "you don't need to use Clemency". It's a little confrontational to tell someone to stop using an ability when they didn't ask for advice, so no entirely unreasonable that they react that way I guess. How would you go about asking someone to stop using it? Genuinely asking, cause I could probably use different wording.

[hynaku]

Actually I support the change of clemency and the out right removal of vercure. Non-healers shouldn't be stand ins for healers.

Till the healer dies and have no one to heal the tank and no one to raise the dead healer. Every class should have some type of self heals.

[RitsukoSonoda]

This makes no sense at all with how this game is designed. Both PLD and RDM have engaging dps rotation, not like their healing matters much when it comes to enjoyment of their jobs (although it is pretty fun to be able to solo some older content with the self heals). Healers have literally nothing to do when there's no healing needs, beside dps.

They could change those healing abilities into oGCD's perhaps so PLD and RDM won't lose their identity, but don't know how that would work out balance wise.

At the same time you're basically asking on your first post for non healer jobs to lose the ability to heal other people because it hurts your ego as a healer.

Another thing you appear to have missed is the amount of healers out there that don't pay enough attention to actually healing when doing non raid content (and sometimes even during raids). Happens most often by my observations in 4 man duties due to the role being populated by someone that just wanted to dodge the DPS queue time. Because of this I tend to not trust a healer when tanking unless it's someone I know and will not hesitate to use clemency on PLD if I see my HP drop below a certain threshold.

[SamRF]

Till the healer dies and have no one to heal the tank and no one to raise the dead healer. Every class should have some type of self heals.

Right, might as well get rid of healers altogether.

[hynaku]

Vercure isn't essential to red mage's identity and clemency doesn't need to be spell or a heal.

Do know a red mage is a combo of a whm and blm so if you took vercure from them how would they be part whm anymore?. Isn't a paladin a combo of a whm and a knight?

[Rannie]

As a healer and a rdm, I absolutely disagree with getting rid of vercure and clemency. As a healer I'm fine with them using the heal spells and as a red mage I've saved runs with being able to heal. Once I was on my RedMage running the Grand Cosmos. We were on the final boss fight and the healer died, now that isnt the bad part, while I was trying to raise the healer the fool released... I healed the rest of the fight and we beat it. I even asked the healer why they released and there was no answer... so NO keep in clemency and vercure.