Delete Clemency and Vercure

[SamRF]

[edit 06/2020] This thread is 4 months old at this point and my opinion has long changed on the matter. Still interesting to read your opinions and arguments on the topic, but I'm no longer part of this debate so don't direct your comments towards me personally. Everything under this sentence is from 4 months ago (edits as well).[/edit 06/2020]

Edit: for those who don't know, Clemency and Vercure are PLD's and RDM's GCD (fairly strong) single target healing abilities.
Edit+update: I'm convinced the abilities shouldn't be removed because they're part of the identity of both jobs, but I'll be in favor of giving them a cooldown and/or putting them on oGCD.

Original Post:
I'm exaggerating with the title and am not convinced those abilities should be deleted yet, but hear me out:

Very insulting as healer if you see RDM or PLD use Clemency/Vercure when you have everything under control. You're maximizing your dps as healer and thus put in some effort to efficiently heal to extend party will survive only to see the dps gain get completely wasted by that Vercure/Clemency.

At first I kind of liked those abilities when leveling both PLD and RDM, but now have come to hate them when leveling healers to the point I'm wondering if those abilities should even exist. Sure they're really nice abilities if you're doing solo content, but they may suggest the wrong idea to some players by making them believe they should freely use them in group content.

The thing is that healers currently usually rely on their oGCD's for healing while they keep GCD's for dps. In many cases they will let HP decrease so they can make optimal use of their oGCD's. Some RDM and PLD may start thinking they or someone else are going to die with their decreasing health while healer has everything under control and is 1 tap away of getting their HP back up.

There are some exceptional cases, like when healer is dead, or massive overpulling in some specific lower level dungoens, but vast majority of cases I see those 2 abilities used is a complete waste.

The dps loss doesn't bother me that much, it's just not nice for a healer when they're already stuck with their monotone dps rotation and on top of that they deny you of enjoying your job with well timed oGCD's.

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Edit: reply that adds argument:

They're the only potent targeted healing GCD skills outside of the healer role. They will be sacrificing dps when they use it (unless RDM prepares dualcast) and can be used repeatedly. All other self healing skills are oGCD and have a cooldown. Those won't be sacrificing dps and they can't use it very often. In my experience, those RDM and PLD that use Clemency/Vercure for no good reason will continue to use them often. They wouldn't be able to do that if there was a cooldown for example.

It's also the fact that your effort to play optimally goes to waste because of the dps loss of using those abilities. When I'm doing my best to maximize my dps as healer, I'd expect to get the instance progress faster due to my efforts, not stall it even more because the RDM or PLD decide to Vercure/Clemency.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

don't Blame the skills for a few scardy cats freaking out (although one ability that needs to be removed is rescue I sware I would have lived through so many fights if the damn healer didn't rescue me right into the range because they were freaking out lol

[Mesarthim]

don't Blame the skills for a few scardy cats freaking out (although one ability that needs to be removed is rescue I sware I would have lived through so many fights if the damn healer didn't rescue me right into the range because they were freaking out lol

And we need to stop asking for useful skills to be removed because people have used them poorly.

[Averax]

don't Blame the skills for a few scardy cats freaking out (although one ability that needs to be removed is rescue I sware I would have lived through so many fights if the damn healer didn't rescue me right into the range because they were freaking out lol

It wouldn't be so bad if Rescue actually performed its desired function. It would be neat if it were nice and snappy like Aetherial Manipulation. But the delay is what kills people. There have been a lot of times where i thought to use it to save somebody but it wouldn't activate fast enough for it to matter.

Clemency is the only reason PLD is tolerable with a "what are buttons" healer in DF.

I've been DPSing a lot in my roulettes lately to break up the monotony, but as a healer main i'm always watching the healer, judging them silently, as one does. It's alarming how how many i've had that just... don't seem to be all there. Like a lot of the time the group will come dangerously close to death and the healer will just be standing there... doing nothing... only to snap out of their torpor at the last moment and spam heals on everyone, and then a few extra as if to say "i'm here, i'm paying attention, notice that i am healing you now"

[Bsrking5]

Actually I support the change of clemency and the out right removal of vercure. Non-healers shouldn't be stand ins for healers.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Actually I support the change of clemency and the out right removal of vercure. Non-healers shouldn't be stand ins for healers.

Only if we can completely remove any and all dps skills from healers. They should be forced to heal only.

[SamRF]

Only if we can completely remove any and all dps skills from healers. They should be forced to heal only.

This makes no sense at all with how this game is designed. Both PLD and RDM have engaging dps rotation, not like their healing matters much when it comes to enjoyment of their jobs (although it is pretty fun to be able to solo some older content with the self heals). Healers have literally nothing to do when there's no healing needs, beside dps.

They could change those healing abilities into oGCD's perhaps so PLD and RDM won't lose their identity, but don't know how that would work out balance wise.

[RitsukoSonoda]

This makes no sense at all with how this game is designed. Both PLD and RDM have engaging dps rotation, not like their healing matters much when it comes to enjoyment of their jobs (although it is pretty fun to be able to solo some older content with the self heals). Healers have literally nothing to do when there's no healing needs, beside dps.

They could change those healing abilities into oGCD's perhaps so PLD and RDM won't lose their identity, but don't know how that would work out balance wise.

At the same time you're basically asking on your first post for non healer jobs to lose the ability to heal other people because it hurts your ego as a healer.

Another thing you appear to have missed is the amount of healers out there that don't pay enough attention to actually healing when doing non raid content (and sometimes even during raids). Happens most often by my observations in 4 man duties due to the role being populated by someone that just wanted to dodge the DPS queue time. Because of this I tend to not trust a healer when tanking unless it's someone I know and will not hesitate to use clemency on PLD if I see my HP drop below a certain threshold.

[SamRF]

At the same time you're basically asking on your first post for non healer jobs to lose the ability to heal other people because it hurts your ego as a healer.

Another thing you appear to have missed is the amount of healers out there that don't pay enough attention to actually healing when doing non raid content (and sometimes even during raids). Happens most often by my observations in 4 man duties due to the role being populated by someone that just wanted to dodge the DPS queue time. Because of this I tend to not trust a healer when tanking unless it's someone I know and will not hesitate to use clemency on PLD if I see my HP drop below a certain threshold.

I mean, in those cases you already have to be lucky to have a PLD or RDM in your party. They're just 1 job within their role, I doubt that 1 GCD targeted healing ability is even being considered when balancing the jobs, it's something redundant when it comes to group content, I'm guessing purely to satisfy the identity of those jobs. Perhaps they could change it to some other healing effect that is oGCD.

When it comes to you using Clemency after certain tress hold, unless the healer in question caused a wipe before, how can you possibly decide when it's the right time to cast clemency? You have to predict the heal cause you need time to cast the ability before you would die, so you're not taking healer oGCD's into account, which they can cast instantly. If you're using Requiescat instant cast then you're wasting even more dps by denying holy circle.

[LaylaTsarra]

Why I main WHM and RDM as a dps class for it's ability to dualcast raise and heal. Thank you SE for giving me a real healers dps class.

And ty for the rdm buff as well.