Delete Clemency and Vercure

[SamRF]

You get insulted way too easily.

You might be right about that one, but it's hardly my main point. Don't you see the scenario in which you are putting some effort to edge heal and dps as much as possible while you have everything under control so that the dungeon will progress faster? Your effort goes to waste because PLD or RDM decided to sacrifice their dps to heal. It's like you put extra effort to help other players progress faster and they respond by sacrificing their dps and thus make your effort go to waste.

[tdb]

You might be right about that one, but it's hardly my main point. Don't you see the scenario in which you are putting some effort to edge heal and dps as much as possible while you have everything under control so that the dungeon will progress faster? Your effort goes to waste because PLD or RDM decided to sacrifice their dps to heal. It's like you put extra effort to help other players progress faster and they respond by sacrificing their dps and thus make your effort go to waste.

As I said in the other thread: communicate. Not everyone values clear speed above everything else, so don't just go and assume that. Trying to force other to play the way you want with your actions is rude and will get a negative response.

[SamRF]

As I said in the other thread: communicate. Not everyone values clear speed above everything else, so don't just go and assume that. Trying to force other to play the way you want with your actions is rude and will get a negative response.

I'm going to respond and ask you a question with another reply I made a couple of pages back (not that I expect you to have read it of course)

I've tried several times to tell players to not use Clemency but they always took offense and started getting defense or didn't respond and continued to use it. My wording was along the lines of "please don't use Clemency" or "you don't need to use Clemency". It's a little confrontational to tell someone to stop using an ability when they didn't ask for advice, so no entirely unreasonable that they react that way I guess. How would you go about asking someone to stop using it? Genuinely asking, cause I could probably use different wording.

[tdb]

I've tried several times to tell players to not use Clemency but they always took offense and started getting defense or didn't respond and continued to use it. My wording was along the lines of "please don't use Clemency" or "you don't need to use Clemency". It's a little confrontational to tell someone to stop using an ability when they didn't ask for advice, so no entirely unreasonable that they react that way I guess. How would you go about asking someone to stop using it? Genuinely asking, cause I could probably use different wording.

The straight answer is that I wouldn't. I simply don't care enough, and the slowdown caused by a PLD sacrificing an attack for Clemency dwarfs next to a DPS who only uses single-target attacks on mass pulls, or someone who dies constantly and forces me to hardcast raises. Particularly fast runs are something to take mental note of, but I'm not so much in a hurry that I would try to shave seconds off a run by micromanaging the other players.

I have a perfect example of this from a week or two ago when I spammed Aurum Vale runs to farm the moogle tomestones. Most tanks didn't pull it wall to wall but only took one or two groups at a time. The fastest run was something like 11 minutes. Then there was one tank who did pull everything they could. I actually had to pay attention to healing and it was honestly more exciting than the usual AV run (no wipes and the tank didn't die; I don't remember if either of the DPS did). But guess what? It took about two minutes longer than the fastest run. The DPS playing properly is so much more important than optimizing the last 1% out of the tank that I just don't bother.

But I digress. To entertain the thought, your wording may come off as a reprimand of them doing something wrong. So perhaps instead encourage them to trust you by saying something along the lines of "I got the heals, you can focus on damage". Try to offer a positive reason for them to not use the ability rather than just telling them to stop using it. It's easier to convince someone to play a certain way if you give them all the pieces they need to arrive at the conclusion of that being the best way.

[SirBrighton]

Requesting that certain skills be removed from the game just so they can't be used to annoy you anymore is a pretty selfish request. These skills exist for good reason.
If a player is annoying you, tell them to stop. If they continue to, leave and blacklist them.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

Vercure is what allows me to throw out Swiftcast Verraise in an emergency, while also ensuring my HP remains up during any kind of shenanigans, so I'd rather not lose the skill.

[Destati]

NO.
Those moves have been absolute lifesavers. They can mean the difference between a clear and a wipe. If they're making you feel that insecure about healing then you're probably doing something wrong.

[NekoHina]

I am a healer first, WHM since the beta. But I also play a RDM and my husband is a PLD. For one, Clemency is not just a solo heal. If a PLD casts it on another person, then he/she gets a 50% heal in return. It works great if the healer is busy with raises or if the dungeon has gone south. He and I together have saved a lot of runs because he could use clemency to cure us both while I got others raised and health back to normal.

As far as RDM, I will use vercure in three instances generally, 1) if I happen to fall and need to be raised then the first thing I do after regen my MP is a double vercure on myself because I have found (especially in raids) that a lot of healers will raise and then leave you at minimal health. If you get hit by anything you will just die again. 2) if I have to verraise anyone, I will follow it up with vercure for similar reasons. Sometimes a healer might not have seen that a player was just raised and doesn’t know to cast a cure immediately on them. Regardless, I would rather use that vercure to make sure they have more than the bare minimum so that another raise isn’t needed. 3) I will cast vercure on a tank if I see them at 30% or so. While I totally agree with healers doing DPS, healing should be the primary job and I have seen too many cases where it was not. Too much Broil, Glare and whatever Ast do when many times players need healing and raising (yes, I know “waiting for swift cast to come back around”).

So no, clemency and vercure should stay just where they are even when healers are healing perfectly. They are an excellent backup in case crap happens and a nice assurance to have around. The world is not going to end because of a single wasted spell from either role.

[Satarn]

M'kay, but we're also removing all healer damage spells(are you suggesting the DPS aren't doing enough?), as well as mitigation and shields(reducing damage is tanks' job, you're being hella rude stepping on their territory like that).

Seriously though - weird bait, but okay.

[Tlamila]

If people need to use Vercure and Clemency with you so much, you're probably not as much a good healer as you think you are. All the times I wanted to use Vercure but I thought: "na, the healer will heal me, right?" I was dead short after. And luckily the healers who take offense to someone helping them are very few, they're usually thankful and when I heal I couldn't care less, healers are not some sort of emperors who need to stay on their high throne. And I'll tell you more, I also use Second Wind and Bloodbath when playing melee!! And that Manaward? And while we're at it, why don't we lso remove mitigation from tanks, how dare they reduce the incoming damage, they should just trust the healer!
Seriously, this thread is a joke.