Delete Clemency and Vercure

[Krojack]

Very insulting as healer if you see RDM or PLD use Clemency/Vercure when you have everything under control.

As a WHM main I have zero insult over seeing this. I could care less if they do it.

I mean, should be be insulting to DPS if a healer starts doing DPS? Should we just remove all damage abilities from healers as well?

[ChaoticCrimson]

Vercure and Clemency are nice utility for solo playing, but are hardly of enough consequence to remove healers' relevance in group content. There's little need to get rid of those skills. If anything, I'd have SE actually sit down and either make SMN's pitiful Physick strong enough to matter for solo content (link it to Int or SOMETHING) or otherwise just outright get rid of the skill. I can't even justify keeping it on my SMNs bars, it's that useless, certainly compared to even Vercure let alone a proper healing spell.

[Bsrking5]

As a healer main myself, I have zero issues with those skills. If the RDM wants to help or the PLD wants to heal themselves, then that less heals I have to do and more DMG I can assist with. Heck in that same line of thinking, might as well remove my damage skills since only DPS should be able to do it. /shrug

I already addressed this in this thread.

Removing vercure and changing clemency would remove some of the inconsistencies SE has with job skills as well.

[VargasVermillion]

PLD has to make sacrifices to use clemency and you can't remove a skill because people use it poorly, you could apply that logic to so many skills in the game. You may as well ask to have jobs gutted to the point where there is only one rotation and no contextual abilities at all.

[hydralus]

On the one hand I kinda understand how irrelevant it can make a group in casual content. I recall doing an Alphascape 2.0 with 2 PLD tanks (me being one of them) and the rest of the group was dead. We killed the thing from 22% by ourselves by sharing clemancies and either invulning or stacking defense buffs through the stacker.

On the other hand, it was freaking awesome.

[Esmoire]

For the vast majority of group content in FFXIV, the chance of you experiencing imperfect play is more likely or not. It's crazy, but in a way, when you get beyond some solo play stuff, these skills create amazing experiences that really are only possible with an environment where players of jarringly different levels of skill and experience come together, and I love that. I love feeling like we can break the game, or "cheat", or salvage a situation only possible with the presence of these actions.

Yeah, there is the potential for people to misuse it. There are also times healers who don't understand content use Rescue to unironically help you and just get you in trouble. There's also just a lot of times people don't use their tools in the right place at the right time, like people not using AOE when they should, or not using ST when they should. I think that's fine. If we take out everything in the game that people can misuse, it will become more and more sterile, something Shadowbringers has done enough of.

[SamRF]

Now I need to ask 2 absurdly stupid questions:
Why are you targetting those 2 skills in particular when almost every class has a form of healing?
Why do you chose to be offended over it?

Because they're the only potent targeted healing GCD skills outside of the healer role. They will be sacrificing dps when they use it (unless RDM prepares dualcast) and can be used repeatedly. All other self healing skills are oGCD and have a cooldown. Those won't be sacrificing dps and they can't use it very often. In my experience, those RDM and PLD that use Clemency/Vercure for no good reason will continue to use them often. They wouldn't be able to do that if there was a cooldown for example.

It's also the fact that your effort to play optimally goes to waste because of the dps loss of using those abilities. When I'm doing my best to maximize my dps as healer, I'd expect to get the instance progress faster due to my efforts, not stall it even more because the RDM or PLD decide to Vercure/Clemency.

[Crushnight]

I don't think these skills should be removed, can't tell you the amount of times when the healer bites the dust or just doesn't heal period and both these skills kept the party going for longer. No way is it efficient but neither is dead healer.

However my issues are with people who use these unnecessarily like >70% hp especially with excog or regens on them, it feels like a complete waste of MY GCDs or CDs on top of theirs which is just irritating

[Dzian]

Actually I support the change of clemency and the out right removal of vercure. Non-healers shouldn't be stand ins for healers.

By that logic non dps classes shouldnt be stand ins for dps classes.

[Seraphor]

These are both very useful for self sustain in solo situations, or when the healer actually IS struggling (it happens).

You could just as easily say it's patronising when a Tank blows every single cooldown on one trash pack, or when the Healers Rescues you out of an AoE when you were planning to use your invulnerability.

In addition, they each have their unique uses. Clemency can trigger Divine Veil, and Vercure can be used to proc Dualcast when there's nothing to target.

Reposting this because this topic seems to be descending into petsonal attacks rather than actual arguments in favour of the skills and their merits.

They're both too value to delete purely for healer pride.