I want this to be COPIED AND PASTED from FFXI

[Signy]

On a related topic, is there a good list or something that shows what words and/or phrases the auto translate actually contains? Several times now I have got so frustrated when trying to use auto translate, never finding the words I needed. It would be easier to know what is possible to say and what is not.

Thats exactly what i'm saying, the game only load the terms that have some kinda of "relation" with you. For example if you don't have an item on your inventory you won't probably find it on the autotranslate. The same happends with a lot of terms on the game that just don't show up until you do something on relation with it.

Its not a problem of Hard-drive space, SE just don't load them into the dictionary that is available for the player.

[kazaran]

THey are revamping the engine which is nice, however they are also adding back load zones to make enviroments more varied in 2.0.

Unfortunatly I fear the Ps3 coudl very well hold things back just like the Ps2 did with XI. Sure the PC version looked much better, even the 360 version but the engine, updates and featues were limited to what the Ps2 coudl handle, and they already held back on the Ps3 version do to it's memory limitations and Sony's poor design of it.

Saying you don't see any limitations is clearly beign blidn to the systems design and the common complaints by developers about it. The memory isn't unified, there is a imitation to offsetting to the split design. The lack of hardware audio encoding, It all takes a hit, especially when MMO's come into play. The system is simpyl no where near todays PC's, even what is now todays middle grade PC's.

THe number one complaint by the large majority of high end develoeprs is the memory contraints and poor system design of the PS3. Plain and simple, it can not come close to todays PC's. Saying it can play an MMO like FFXIV at the same level as a PC is pure ignorance. It is already and issue, requiring an overhaul.

SE has said the graphics core will be highly scalable. To fuction on lower end PC's and the PS3, but enahanced for higher end PC's. Let's hope this holds true. However there is no need to add in load zones again for a PC due to PC's havign much higher memory, and Vram alone, that is between double to 4 times the total of the Ps3 alone. Todays Gpu's can stream textures and data much faster, in addtion to having more meory on each side to play with.

They need to make sure the Ps3's limitations do not affect current players and other PC gamers.

[Laraul]

THey are revamping the engine which is nice, however they are also adding back load zones to make enviroments more varied in 2.0.

Unfortunatly I fear the Ps3 coudl very well hold things back just like the Ps2 did with XI. Sure the PC version looked much better, even the 360 version but the engine, updates and featues were limited to what the Ps2 coudl handle, and they already held back on the Ps3 version do to it's memory limitations and Sony's poor design of it.

The PS3 already HAS a dictionary with a sh*tload of words. And are you thinking this through? Take a look at an underpowered device like this digital pocket dictionary and PLEASE tell me that you do understand that the PS2/PS3 is NOT LIMITING THE DICTIONARY! That thing is less powerful than the original NES!

[indira]

dont know why they even started from scratch on the auto-translator alot of stuff could of been carried over from FFXI.

[Mychael]

dont know why they even started from scratch on the auto-translator alot of stuff could of been carried over from FFXI.

I agree. Obviously not places, but the auto-translator in XI was fairly well-developed. I'm going to drop all of my suggestions in this thread. It's not "complete" because I'm tired and lost the will to finish. >.>


Please add...
Some terms I think should be added (some from XI, some not):
- Everyone
- Fact
- Last Boss
- Good Afternoon
- Anyone
- Big (or Large)
- Small
- Full, or Whole (we have half!)
- Part (as opposed to Whole/Full, but less specific than Half)
- Alternate character (i.e. alt--"my {Alternate Character} is level 30")
- I have one already. (Refers to linkshells, parties, or items)
- Could you please move to another location?
- I don't need it, but I could use it.
- How will we handle the distribution of items?
- Please pass it to me.
- Good
- Great
- Poor
- Awful
- Resist
- Resistance

Questions with no answers?
We have a lot of questions, but no way to respond without Google Translate. So for the various questions, I propose that the loc team look through and come up with 2~5 answers each that actually make sense. Obviously, many questions cannot be answered out of a limited dictionary, but I think it's fair to ask for some general responses such as these:

Who?
- The classifications from the 2.0 screenshot: Attacker, Caster, Tank, Healer, Buffer
- Leader (purposefully non-specific to allow for {Party} {leader}, {Linkshell} {leader}, {Front line class} {leader}, etc.)

When?
- Now
- In a little bit.
- Soon
- After
- Before
- Any time
- As soon as we are ready.

How many?
- Many
- Few
- Too many
- Too few

Greetings mis-labeled?
How are any of these terms "greetings?" I think "Greetings" should be re-named to "Courtesies" or the like, and some of these fit better in other categories.
- Goodbye!
- I had fun today!
- See you again!
- Let's play together again sometime!
- I'm back!
- Welcome back.
- Congratulations!
- Good Job! (-> Exclamations... new category? ;D)
- Good luck! (-> Exclamations)
- All right! (-> Exclamations)
- Thank you!
- You're welcome.
- Take care.
- I'm sorry.
- Please forgive me.
- That's too bad. (->Answers)

Other mis-categorized terms..
(Current -> Where they should be)
- Casting Spell (Reasons -> Actions...new category?)
- Oops! (Reasons -> Exclamations)
- Have stuff to do, gotta go! (Reasons -> [whatever category "Goodbye" is in])
- I don't know. (Reasons -> Answers...or Responses, see below.)
- I'm interested. (Reasons -> Answers)
- Fighting right now! (Reasons -> Actions)
- Medicine (General Terms -> Game Terms)
- Food (General Terms -> Game Terms)
- Can you hear me? (Languages -> Questions)
- Please use simple words (Languages -> Questions?)
- Please listen. (Languages -> General Terms)
- I need some time to put together my answer. (Languages ->Answers)
- Recommend (Organize -> ???)
- My gear is in poor condition. (Organize -> ??? (Trade, but I think "trade" should be dissolved)

Abilities
There is a category for each DoM/DoW's actions, but DoH/DoL actions are in a huge "abilities" category. Split it into "Crafter Actions and Abilities" and "Gatherer Actions," both to alleviate the confusion (It's an ability...but oh wait, it's a Gladiator and Paladin action, too.) and to make it less huge. There are already two categories basically--"Crafter Actions" and "Gatherer Actions," but they are too literal. They only include the actions (Stone Throw, Wrist Flick) as opposed to abilities (which are the vast majority of skills used by DoL/DoH. Just split it into these already-existent categories; add the "and Abilities" if it bothers someone's OCD.

Answers... or responses?
The "answers" category seems to be more of "responses" than actual "answers," which most commonly would refer to a question's answer rather than simply answering to a statement. Maybe it could be better named?

Job/Class?
I don't think all of these are necessary. I suggest they be re-thought, a little, and a compromise could be found that would ask what role someone wants to play
- What classes can you use?
- What jobs can you use?
- Can you use any other job? (This question needs a non-job-specific counterpart anyway, or the EN version is bad since "job" takes on a specific meaning in FFXIV)

Differentiate between synonyms (or similar phrases)
There are a lot of phrases/terms which mean almost the same thing in English, and they make me wonder if there's a subtle distinction in other languages.

Differentiate between homonyms
- Second (It refers to the time, but is often used to mark the second thing in a series. )
- Clear (It refers to the weather, but is often used to decribe a cleared dungeon, or a transparent object)

Is this mean or not?
In general, I always assume that no auto-translate term is intended to be "mean," but a few, in particular, have made me wary of using them since I don't know exactly how they translate.
- Um...
- Huh?
- Really?

Buy/Sell
I've always wondered how it appears to other languages. When I say "{Crab Bow} {Buy?} 200k", am I saying "Will you buy my Crab Bow for 200k?" or "May I buy your Crab Bow for 200k?" Even though I'm almost certain "Buy?" indicates MY interest in buying (since "Sell?" can only work one way), but it's not clear. I say replace them with:
- Can I buy it?
- Would you like to buy it?

Overlapping Categories
- While I appreciate that the terms are organized, it's difficult to navigate because the classifications are not mutually exclusive. In other words, the terms in "Trade" could easily be sorted into "Questions," "Responses," and "Reasons." There are questions in "Organize," and so on. It makes it difficult to quickly naviage--"It's a question, but about this trade...um...."

Unofficial Languages
Would it be possible to add the names of languages that are not officially supported? So that when the Japanese player asks a Spanish player what their language is, and the Spanish person sees the English translation, they can translate "Spanish"? I don't know if this is possible, however, because of the sheer number of languages in the world. Someone's feelings would be hurt if you didn't list their language, so it may be best as is.

My biggest complaint: CACHE
- While I understand for items and players' names, I believe that places or statuses should be permanently saved so that we're not asking around the LS for someone to translate a zone's name before we can shout. -_-
- There needs to be a way to manually add items or NPC names to the dictionary's cache--see my thread on /translate from XI.

[Dragon]

I agree. Obviously not places, but the auto-translator in XI was fairly well-developed. I'm going to drop all of my suggestions in this thread. It's not "complete" because I'm tired and lost the will to finish. >.>


Please add...
Some terms I think should be added (some from XI, some not):
- Everyone
- Fact
- Last Boss
- Good Afternoon
- Anyone
- Big (or Large)
- Small
- Full, or Whole (we have half!)
- Part (as opposed to Whole/Full, but less specific than Half)
- Alternate character (i.e. alt--"my {Alternate Character} is level 30")
- I have one already. (Refers to linkshells, parties, or items)
- Could you please move to another location?
- I don't need it, but I could use it.
- How will we handle the distribution of items?
- Please pass it to me.
- Good
- Great
- Poor
- Awful
- Resist
- Resistance

Questions with no answers?
We have a lot of questions, but no way to respond without Google Translate. So for the various questions, I propose that the loc team look through and come up with 2~5 answers each that actually make sense. Obviously, many questions cannot be answered out of a limited dictionary, but I think it's fair to ask for some general responses such as these:

Who?
- The classifications from the 2.0 screenshot: Attacker, Caster, Tank, Healer, Buffer
- Leader (purposefully non-specific to allow for {Party} {leader}, {Linkshell} {leader}, {Front line class} {leader}, etc.)

When?
- Now
- In a little bit.
- Soon
- After
- Before
- Any time
- As soon as we are ready.

How many?
- Many
- Few
- Too many
- Too few

Greetings mis-labeled?
How are any of these terms "greetings?" I think "Greetings" should be re-named to "Courtesies" or the like, and some of these fit better in other categories.
- Goodbye!
- I had fun today!
- See you again!
- Let's play together again sometime!
- I'm back!
- Welcome back.
- Congratulations!
- Good Job! (-> Exclamations... new category? ;D)
- Good luck! (-> Exclamations)
- All right! (-> Exclamations)
- Thank you!
- You're welcome.
- Take care.
- I'm sorry.
- Please forgive me.
- That's too bad. (->Answers)

Other mis-categorized terms..
(Current -> Where they should be)
- Casting Spell (Reasons -> Actions...new category?)
- Oops! (Reasons -> Exclamations)
- Have stuff to do, gotta go! (Reasons -> [whatever category "Goodbye" is in])
- I don't know. (Reasons -> Answers...or Responses, see below.)
- I'm interested. (Reasons -> Answers)
- Fighting right now! (Reasons -> Actions)
- Medicine (General Terms -> Game Terms)
- Food (General Terms -> Game Terms)
- Can you hear me? (Languages -> Questions)
- Please use simple words (Languages -> Questions?)
- Please listen. (Languages -> General Terms)
- I need some time to put together my answer. (Languages ->Answers)
- Recommend (Organize -> ???)
- My gear is in poor condition. (Organize -> ??? (Trade, but I think "trade" should be dissolved)

Abilities
There is a category for each DoM/DoW's actions, but DoH/DoL actions are in a huge "abilities" category. Split it into "Crafter Actions and Abilities" and "Gatherer Actions," both to alleviate the confusion (It's an ability...but oh wait, it's a Gladiator and Paladin action, too.) and to make it less huge. There are already two categories basically--"Crafter Actions" and "Gatherer Actions," but they are too literal. They only include the actions (Stone Throw, Wrist Flick) as opposed to abilities (which are the vast majority of skills used by DoL/DoH. Just split it into these already-existent categories; add the "and Abilities" if it bothers someone's OCD.

Answers... or responses?
The "answers" category seems to be more of "responses" than actual "answers," which most commonly would refer to a question's answer rather than simply answering to a statement. Maybe it could be better named?

Job/Class?
I don't think all of these are necessary. I suggest they be re-thought, a little, and a compromise could be found that would ask what role someone wants to play
- What classes can you use?
- What jobs can you use?
- Can you use any other job? (This question needs a non-job-specific counterpart anyway, or the EN version is bad since "job" takes on a specific meaning in FFXIV)

Differentiate between synonyms (or similar phrases)
There are a lot of phrases/terms which mean almost the same thing in English, and they make me wonder if there's a subtle distinction in other languages.

Differentiate between homonyms
- Second (It refers to the time, but is often used to mark the second thing in a series. )
- Clear (It refers to the weather, but is often used to decribe a cleared dungeon, or a transparent object)

Is this mean or not?
In general, I always assume that no auto-translate term is intended to be "mean," but a few, in particular, have made me wary of using them since I don't know exactly how they translate.
- Um...
- Huh?
- Really?

Buy/Sell
I've always wondered how it appears to other languages. When I say "{Crab Bow} {Buy?} 200k", am I saying "Will you buy my Crab Bow for 200k?" or "May I buy your Crab Bow for 200k?" Even though I'm almost certain "Buy?" indicates MY interest in buying (since "Sell?" can only work one way), but it's not clear. I say replace them with:
- Can I buy it?
- Would you like to buy it?

Overlapping Categories
- While I appreciate that the terms are organized, it's difficult to navigate because the classifications are not mutually exclusive. In other words, the terms in "Trade" could easily be sorted into "Questions," "Responses," and "Reasons." There are questions in "Organize," and so on. It makes it difficult to quickly naviage--"It's a question, but about this trade...um...."

Unofficial Languages
Would it be possible to add the names of languages that are not officially supported? So that when the Japanese player asks a Spanish player what their language is, and the Spanish person sees the English translation, they can translate "Spanish"? I don't know if this is possible, however, because of the sheer number of languages in the world. Someone's feelings would be hurt if you didn't list their language, so it may be best as is.

My biggest complaint: CACHE
- While I understand for items and players' names, I believe that places or statuses should be permanently saved so that we're not asking around the LS for someone to translate a zone's name before we can shout. -_-
- There needs to be a way to manually add items or NPC names to the dictionary's cache--see my thread on /translate from XI.

You really nailed the problem on its head, thank you.

[Bayohne]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback everyone! Like Mychael's really detailed suggestions (thanks!), what else are some limitations of the system you'd like to see changed, and what new terms/adjusted terms would you like? List them up and we'll prepare a list to present to the dev. team and see what we can do (keep in mind it's not a guarantee, but we're here to bring your voice to the development team's ear)!

Try out this handy-dandy template (of samples) I created to help us gather your comments -

Changes/Adjustments to Auto-Translate

• Add a new category for "xyz" type of comments

New Terms/Updated Terms

• Change "Hello" to "Top o' the mornin' to ye!"

[Jynx]

List them up and we'll prepare a list to present to the dev. team and see what we can do (keep in mind it's not a guarantee, but we're here to bring your voice to the development team's ear)!

This post

Seriously everything in Reinhearts translation google doc should be in the auto translation list.

[Dragon]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback everyone! Like Mychael's really detailed suggestions (thanks!), what else are some limitations of the system you'd like to see changed, and what new terms/adjusted terms would you like? List them up and we'll prepare a list to present to the dev. team and see what we can do (keep in mind it's not a guarantee, but we're here to bring your voice to the development team's ear)!

Try out this handy-dandy template (of samples) I created to help us gather your comments -

Changes/Adjustments to Auto-Translate

• Add a new category for "xyz" type of comments

New Terms/Updated Terms

• Change "Hello" to "Top o' the mornin' to ye!"

Thanks as always, Bayohne.

I'd personally like to suggest more grammatically-correct translations, such as "Can I..." should be changed to "May I..."

Grammar Girl - "May" vs "Can"

[Anathiel]

I have a question about auto translate....for instance <lie> does that mean like: I'm lying to someone? or that I'm going to lie down? Don't know how you would be able to make some very..."vague" terms more distinct. english is pretty tricky, but...there are some really grey ones in ff:xi.

EDIT:...lie was a bad example. but I hope you get what I mean.