I want to get into Raiding

[ExcentricNoob]

So, I've been giving it some thought, and I'd like to try getting into the Raiding scene. I'm a casual player and I got no shame in that. My Raiding experience is just using the Roulette when trying to farm for the currency needed to upgrade gear on one of my max level Classes. My fear is that trying to get into the Raiding scene outside of the Roulette would get me shunned from whatever Raiding FCs or communities that are out there because I have very subpar gear (my Red Mage is still rocking Green gear in a few slots), only two max level Classes (Red Mage and Dancer), no knowledge on min/max stat priorities, and no Materia on my gear (I think?) since I don't know what kinds to add to my gear, or when to even start using Materia. Like, should Materia only be added when you have the highest item level gear? Things like that get me scared and just cause me to continue using Roulettes for Raids instead of trying to branch out and find a regular group that does Raid regularly. Not sure if I'm making any sense in all this, but any tips for a player interested in trying to join the Raiding scene?

[HyoMinPark]

If you’re discussing Savage raiding, then you should take baby steps first.

Familiarize yourself with the job you wish to raid on. Learn its rotation and practice extensively on a striking dummy until it’s muscle memory. Damage, more or less, doesn’t matter in most content—but it will matter in Savage raids; so you want to make sure you have a good understanding of how your job plays to meet the damage quota.

Second, familiarize yourself with proper gearing techniques. For Savage, you will want to keep your gear as updated as possible. Right now, the best there is outside of the new Savage/Tomestone gear is the i480 Neo-Ishgardian set. It is essential that you have this gear for tackling the newest Savage raid. Melding it will also be important. Generally, you can find out which materia your job prefers by joining a discord like The Balance, where they post resources like this. They also post your Best in Slot (BiS) sets for each new raid tier. BiS includes proper materia melds. Generally, interim gear should also be melded.

Third, since it seems like you haven’t tried any high-end content in FFXIV yet, start going into Extreme trials. They are harder and more demanding that things like dungeons, and they will also introduce you to dealing with punishing mechanics and enrage timers. You will want to get used to EX before going into Savage, as Savage is harder and more demanding. I recommend, after gearing yourself, to join some EX primal party finders. Start with learning ones. Focus on learning the mechanics while simultaneously dealing damage. Don’t get discouraged if you get killed or mess up. It happens to everyone.

After you feel comfortable enough in EX trials, then you can start tackling Savage. Savage is fairly puggable in Party Finder, so do the same thing: joining learning parties and practice the fights. Do not join a clear party until you have at least been to enrage a couple times, and feel confident that you understand the fight and the mechanics.

[Sasarayu]

The oldest and best advice for raiding in FFXIV is: "have seven friends to raid with or don't bother".

I've personally never found a more inaccessible environment than the so called FFXIV raid "scene" and the amount of energy it requires isn't worth what little you get for it imo.

Compare it to WoW where I log on and do my daily lonewolfing and everything else, including the highest difficulty raiding, I get through the guild just by having the ability/ambition level I have.

[VenKitsune]

The oldest and best advice for raiding in FFXIV is: "have seven friends to raid with or don't bother".

I've personally never found a more inaccessible environment than the so called FFXIV raid "scene" and the amount of energy it requires isn't worth what little you get for it imo.

I disagree completely.
Raiding with existing friends causes drama, drama breaks friendships.
The Raiding scene really isnt hard to get in to - Not when generally savage is much easier than other MMO's raids, and not with the stepping stone that is extremes.

[HyoMinPark]

The oldest and best advice for raiding in FFXIV is: "have seven friends to raid with or don't bother".

I've personally never found a more inaccessible environment than the so called FFXIV raid "scene" and the amount of energy it requires isn't worth what little you get for it imo.

Compare it to WoW where I log on and do my daily lonewolfing and everything else, including the highest difficulty raiding, I get through the guild just by having the ability/ambition level I have.

I disagree with this. I was a nobody when I started raiding—I had no raiding experience (this is my first MMO), I was honestly not that great of a player, and I really only had 2 friends that actually did Savage content. We just dove in and did random PFs during Creator to introduce me to the content (I’d already been doing Extremes for a bit at that point). Eventually I started searching for statics and doing Party Finders (I don’t do much PF nowadays because I’m a little too busy, but it was never an issue doing them before with random people). I managed to “get into this inaccessible scene” and clear an Ultimate fight last year. I might not be well-known in the raid scene, but I’ve never really tried to be. I’ve never been kicked or otherwise “blacklisted” by anyone in the raiding community, so. /shrug

Anyways, I don’t find the community inaccessible at all.

[Sasarayu]

I disagree with this. I was a nobody when I started raiding—I had no raiding experience (this is my first MMO), I was honestly not that great of a player, and I really only had 2 friends that actually did Savage content. We just dove in and did random PFs during Creator to introduce me to the content (I’d already been doing Extremes for a bit at that point). Eventually I started searching for statics and doing Party Finders (I don’t do much PF nowadays because I’m a little too busy, but it was never an issue doing them before with random people). I managed to “get into this inaccessible scene” and clear an Ultimate fight last year. I might not be well-known in the raid scene, but I’ve never really tried to be. I’ve never been kicked or otherwise “blacklisted” by anyone in the raiding community, so. /shrug

Anyways, I don’t find the community inaccessible at all.

I've played FFXIV for years and spent 1,5 years hopelessly pugging 2/4 Savage and Ex Trials on my own with absurd time investment in proportion to the payback. In my first FC I was more or less told to my face "raiding is gated and we deliberatly keep people out to teach them their place and maintain hierarchy and imagined feeling of superiority".

Three consecutive days in PF to get Nidhogg, Sophia and Zurvan down with around 8 hours straight prog is a ridiculous investment if you compare it to my first week static clear on Deltascape or the six weeks I spent on Eden's Gate (which was three weeks too much imo). In contrast, Creator for me was cleared the week before echo and Midas I only dreamed about. I always find I get less than I aim for in FFXIV and getting into raiding always seems random and not "you get what you work for" and it leaves me exhausted.

The group I cleared Eden's Gate with also had no ambition or time to do new Hades Ex and I guess that was the final nail in the coffin for me. To me Ex Trials are Christmas and maybe the most fun PvE of the game in terms of time/challenge and supposed to be done impromptu with friends or raid group on just one evening and even this is too difficult to get done sometimes and I will never go back to three days 8-10 hours straight "Nidhogg mode" PF just for that. So no more raiding for me I decided.

In WoW I seem to always end up somewhere suited to my ambition level and skill and since I have a lazy side this means I do keystone master achievement for M+ and usually prog most of a Mythic raid tier at a leisurely pace (which in time investment is a lot more than 4 Savage bosses with a decent group) and that time invested is actually corresponding to what I get for it.

Your reply shows that 1. you already had a few friends to begin with and 2. that the raid scene is as random as I describe it and you can be lucky or not but our differing personal experiences prove it's not smooth sailing all the time.

I've also learned that some high end raiders have the same problems and feel anxious about getting that group if they take a break for a few months or miss a tier and they are subject to this randomness and hierarchial thinking just as much as me with the difference they at least improved their chances just like you have by finding that banana peel and the right people once upon a time.

This anxiety in turn fuels the elitist mentality and it serves more purpose than just ego inflating for first time MMO-ers or washed up former WoW-raiders wanting to be big fish in small pond. It gives an actual network to those seeking to hold on to that windy, shaky peak where chances of getting a good group is higher. This is why you see the elitist linkshells, Discord channels and Twitter mentality with people scratching each others backs like freemasons almost. It's absolutely exotic behaviour in the eyes of someone only used to for example the WoW raid community.

[Curisu]

I don't want to sound mean but maybe you are just not good enough for raiding.

Like you I play on the Light DC and had absolutely no problem to get my e1-4s kills via df without a static.
Well, every Tuesday I looked at the Raiding Discord for a group to do the reclears but beside that I didn't do anything with friends.
Over all my time investment was really low because I stopped playing when I didn't perform well and just switched groups when one didn't reached the wanted mechanic.

Raiding in FFxiv is easy.

[Sasarayu]

I don't want to sound mean but maybe you are just not good enough for raiding.

Like you I play on the Light DC and had absolutely no problem to get my e1-4s kills via df without a static.
Well, every Tuesday I looked at the Raiding Discord for a group to do the reclears but beside that I didn't do anything with friends.
Over all my time investment was really low because I stopped playing when I didn't perform well and just switched groups when one didn't reached the wanted mechanic.

Raiding in FFxiv is easy.

As for "bad" my midcore track record is 1st week clear on Deltascape, 6th week clear on Eden's Gate, a clear at least on Creator, all ex trials back in HW usually on the first days or weeks when they had some tuning and challenge and weren't just about mechanics. I don't log myself but I looked at logs uploaded by others and I'm usually a solid 80-percentile player and sometimes when I know an encounter and push it I've had 95%+. If that's "too bad for raiding" then okay.

I find FFXIV design favors a certain type of intelligence, namely the mathematical and logical and those who have perfect memory are good at sudoku and crosswords and whatever are usually good at FFXIV raiding.

I have quite poor memory and mix up order of sequences, when a certain mechanic is going to happen etc but in contrast I have above average performance and is considered a "strong" player in some situations. It's also why I play DPS and not healer since for DPS it's a bit forgiving even if you forget things but healers must have perfect memory at all times. DPS can be guided through an encounter by using their rotation as waymarks but healers have no rotation and must know what happens since there is no reactive healing at all (or reactive playstyle whatsoever) in FFXIV. SMN is the most set in stone rotation of all and I like it for that reason since it leads me through mechanics I otherwise forget.

In WoW this isn't a problem because it has more diversity in design. Experienced raid leaders see "okay, he's that type. Let's not assign him this mechanic but let's have him do that thing instead because his type is usually good at it" and everyone contributes.

I've found people in FFXIV who doesn't even perform half as well as me on my highest level but who learns certain patterns and memorizes sequences three times as fast.

It's this narrow approach of the game that I struggle with but it doesn't mean I'm "bad" just because my initial learning of a certain mechanic is 15% slower or so. I make up for it once I get it and usually can prog faster than those people who got that specific sequence memorized faster than me at first.

In my experience prog is slower with a group of brainiacs who get mechanics immediately, present detailed tactics for mechanics but can't perform well enough fast enough than it is with somewhat dim people like myself who don't get everything but has a few extra gears when it's needed. The best groups ofc have both those abilities but I tend to find myself with either the first category or people who have neither tactical nor individual performancewise good skills.

Category#1, the "smart but underperforming" people tend to test my patience and those who are good at both things find me mentally taxing when I don't get a mechanic on the first try.

So at the end of the day, finding a group or doing PF becomes very random and the group jumping in PF you describe can take anywhere from 1 hour to 6+ hours of failed groups even if I'm not the one holding things back. Afte r6+ hours mental fatigue sets in and anyone can start failing.

I also know high end groups where 2/8 people are actually "smart" and understand mechanics well while the rest are just doing what they are told but compensate with unrelenting energy towards raiding. As if they just don't get tired. This works too.

It is a design problem at its core and FFXIV does not in any way welcome diversity. It is a game that demands absolute conformity on all levels.

A community as quick to judge and point fingers because someone doesn't fit the exact mold of conformity required, the way you do, is also difficult to find in other games. FFXIV is black or white, fail or succeed, right or wrong and has so few greyzones and I'm all about that grey zone.

[Rymm]

Let me preface this by saying that I do not have a Static and the highest end content I usually do is EX Primals in PF PuG groups. That being said, until a Savage raider would like to step in and offer something more constructive, my basic advice is to educate yourself and put effort into being the best you can right now. I personally recommend the Balance as a great resource.

Pick which class you would like to main and focus on gearing it up as best you can in the short term- buy the new tier of crafted gear or burn your tomes for the best vendor gear you can get at the moment. Replace your lowest ilvl items first. Once you have decent gear that you don't feel you'll be replacing in the immediate future, meld it (I would save overmelding for when you get BiS or once you find a static, if they require that).

Do research on your chosen class and make sure you are optimizing your rotation. Watch boss fight videos to learn the strats before you ever set foot in them. Make yourself a player that other people will want to have on their team.

I know it's not terribly specific, but I hope it helps. Good luck out there!

[MPK]

Perfect time to start. New EX just dropped and a new raid tier just dropped