Thoughts on class changes?

[Hanayumi]

RDM changes are honestly a joke. +20 potency to 2 CDs and +20 potency to aero/thunder. This won't be enough to bring them even up to BLM, or SMN (post nerf) And then SMN being too strong... So cut 5 potency off the 2 dots. I honestly don't know where they even get their information when it comes to the balance. But I guess RDM is probably intended to suffer cause they bring the instant cast raises and heals as needed for 'support'

Will have to see how it plays, but yeah they're never going to let RDM get even remotely close to BLM numbers, lol. It needs to be on par with SMN though, rough similar utility and such. Guess we will shall see if those SMN nerfs are enough, may seem small but we keep those dots do add up on the long run since we keep them up all the time.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

The changes are so minor I just...don't even understand? Were WARs upset with SiO? I've never heard of anyone complaining about it, the RDM "buffs" (I use this sarcastically) again very inconsequential I was really looking forward to dust off my RDM and blow everything up. As for the SMN nerfs...that's a nerf? They're still obscenely over powered unless I'm missing something?

I woke up with low expectations and time to go back to bed, these changes weren't even a bandaid they were just thrown at the wall with a tiny tiny dart and they said "yes we must not upset the balance" I'd like to know what world they're living in.

As a Warrior main, I didn't have a huge problem with SiO but I did feel it lacked a little in comparison to DRK's Blackest Night and PLD's overall defensive buffs. It's a nice small change.

[Silverquick]

No I can't say that.

Honestly Red Mage utility is vastly superior to SMN in utility. Having tried to pull off the same kinds of things with Summoner that I can with Red Mage is an exercise in futility.

Embolden is way stronger than Devotion as it starts off more powerful and it lasts longer. Healing with High level SMN is an exercise in futility... but dual casting VerCure as Red Mage does actually work well. Its a 350 potency heal but dual casted its 700, and even though its not as strong as a full Healer. Its way better and actually works to keep a tank alive in an emergency situation... SMN Physic does not.

I can Raise 5 people in a party with RDM very quickly. 3 of them instantly because all of the RDM VerRaises are instant. Then with a Super Ether and Lucid Dreaming two more.

I can't even approach that level of efficiency with SMN, I can only quick cast one of then its... whip out Titan to Stoneskin myself and hard cast Ressurection for an excruciatingly long casting time.

[Awful]

As a Warrior main, I didn't have a huge problem with SiO but I did feel it lacked a little in comparison to DRK's Blackest Night and PLD's overall defensive buffs. It's a nice small change.

I can understand that but Divine Veil is only 10% of their max HP vs SiO which was 12% baseline now it's gonna be 15% which is quite an increase, it didn't need to be touched but it's nice to get it for free. My only complaints with WAR is Onslaught using gauge, Storms Eye having it be refreshed since no other tank has to do it, and Nascent Flash requiring a target, I was hoping they'd add some QoL to WAR in these departments but ah well SiO buff is always welcome, not asked for but nice.

[Mhaeric]

RDM buff is so tiny, I don't know what else we could have expected.

The AoE buff is actually fairly large due to Contre Sixte no longer having any damage fall off. It used to be 380 potency on the primary target and only 50% of that on additional targets, now it's 400 potency on all targets. Against a conservative 3 targets that an increase of 440 potency per use, and it increases in potency by a whopping 210 potency for each target past that. Against 4 targets that's a 650 potency increase from before, against 5 targets 860 potency increase, and so on. If you can get an 8 mob pull that's a massive 1490 potency more than we were getting before. Dungeon DPS for RDM is going to go up fairly decently with this change especially with full pulls, since Contre Sixte is already typically my third highest dps source in a dungeon, only beat out by Impact and Enchanted Moulinet.

I'm not super versed in calculating expected dps outputs based on potency changes, but from my napkin math this change to Contre Sixte looks to put it roughly on par with Enchanted Moulinet in terms of how much damage it will output during a run. I calculate based on some of my most recent runs that once you include the changes to Fleche, Verthunder and Veraero it's roughly a 6-7% increase in DPS during dungeons.

Against single targets like in raids or trials you're correct, since it won't be as much since it's only a 20 potency increase for Contre Sixte in that case. I still figure it will be about a 2% increase to our dps in that situation once you include the other 3 spells as well.

[ForteNightshade]

- Red Mage buffs are... okay but may still be too little given how laughably insignificant the "nerf" to Summoner was.
- Of all the things Warrior needed, buffing Shake was not even on the list.

Perhaps the biggest slap, though not one unexpected, is nothing for the Range DPS. They're far too weak given how little their mobility actually gets utilized in a fight. Machinist is supposed to be the selfish DPS of the role yet even Red Mage slaps it around. While I still maintain their should be some max for their mobility, it shouldn't be the ridiculous amount it is now.

[Adventica6]

- Range DPS. They're far too weak given how little their mobility actually gets utilized in a fight. Machinist is supposed to be the selfish DPS of the role yet even Red Mage slaps it around. While I still maintain their should be some max for their mobility, it shouldn't be the ridiculous amount it is now.

Another loud mouth without a clue, sure our dps is trailing at the moment due to lack of buffs but guess what? changes are possible. Just because someone has a faster car than you doesn't mean your life is ruined.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I can understand that but Divine Veil is only 10% of their max HP vs SiO which was 12% baseline now it's gonna be 15% which is quite an increase, it didn't need to be touched but it's nice to get it for free. My only complaints with WAR is Onslaught using gauge, Storms Eye having it be refreshed since no other tank has to do it, and Nascent Flash requiring a target, I was hoping they'd add some QoL to WAR in these departments but ah well SiO buff is always welcome, not asked for but nice.

10% of a Paladin's Max hp is about a 14.6k shield. A dps or healer would need 97k hp to get the same from 5.2 SiO versus 121k from 5.1 SiO.

[Packetdancer]

No. It's a fixed reduction of 25% after the first enemy. So "10% less for the second, 20% less for the third," now becomes 25% less. Only from the 4th target on it's a buff.

I actually read it as a buff too at first, but someone made me notice it wasn't.

I mean, yes, but I find that generally I'm either targeting one thing with Misery during a boss fight (in which case this changes absolutely nothing) or I'm targeting one of about eight mobs all huddled into a pile trying to chew on the tank's face after a wall-to-wall pull, in which case this ends up being a net buff in terms of damage to the entire cluster. In the scenario where you have only a handful of mobs, yeah, it's a nerf, but I think in common use cases—at least in my common use cases—it's going to work out as worst-case a total wash, and best case a buff.

[Risvertasashi]

Since oddly enough there is no discussion about it yet, and the patch notes are out.

RDM buff is so tiny, I don't know what else we could have expected.
BLM and WHM AoE nerfed for less than 4 targets. Yuppy.

At least RDM got one. SE just sealed BRD to being the lowest dps, and not by a particularly narrow margin, for another full raid tier.