How do you think Yoshida would react to the following hypothetical regarding parsing?

[Vnolan]

Say several thousand players come together and announce they'll be posting parses publicly in chat on a specified date. Just the numbers, no commentary on them.

Does Yoshida issue temp bans (and potential permabans if they already have a record) to several thousand customers who would not be doing anything wrong, or does he let it slide?

[Nandrolone]

Have a hissy fit and punish everyone for it, as usual.

[Vnolan]

Have a hissy fit and punish everyone for it, as usual.

Gave me an idea lol. If SE is so against numbers, why not remove them and have the damage show up as "Good", "Great" (target hit while def is nerfed or player dmg is buffed) and "Poor" (target has def buffed or player has dmg nerfed)?

By 'anything wrong' you of course mean the bit that had a 40 minute long lecture about the usage of third party tools in the latest live letter, right? And how they're against the terms of service? All that jazz?

I mean morally wrong. Planned event or not, those players would still be parsing and unlike most other prohibited activities, parsing has no effect on other players, the game's code or game balance.

To be honest, until they start banning streamers they observe using parsers or mods that provide advantages, that lecture can be ignored.

i'd love to see all those people get reported and given suspensions.

Why? It would just be numbers. Would be interesting to see what percentage of parses would be reported or if there would be a surge in requests for a parser by those previously unaware of their performance.

It'd be a pretty interesting experiment to see unfold, since it's the sort of thing that would probably be picked up by the gaming media. Which, in turn, would cause the reaction to be scrutinised very carefully. Rival MMO's could also potentially exploit the situation for their own game by highlighting that they allow for the use of certain mods, too.

Also something to consider. Didn't another company receive bad press for enforcing their ToS against activity that was not morally wrong and did not affect the game's code or balance? Not the same by any means, but being against the ToS doesn't automatically make the company right (that's not to say they aren't allowed to enforce their ToS).

What is the purpose of that question exactly ?

Generating discussion.

If you wanna go public about using a third party system so that you can show your numbers to the world, I don't feel sorry if you're thrown a ban hammer. Game Over

In the hypothetical, posting the party's parse in chat would let the average player know about parsing and what knowledge it can provide. There would be no comments about the numbers being bad or good, so the harassment potential can be ignored.

Uploading the logs to a site, which SE has said nothing about, shows the world. Funny thing, isn't it? Letting the party know how much they did with no comments is bad, but letting everyone else but the party know is perfectly fine.

[MitsukiKimura]

People would use this to brag or use it as a reason to kick people from the party. That has nothing to do inside their game so they can’t take action that’s on a third party website. Go read Yoshi P’s discussion about the matter if you don’t understand.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

I mean morally wrong. Planned event or not, those players would still be parsing and unlike most other prohibited activities, parsing has no effect on other players, the game's code or game balance.


In the hypothetical, posting the party's parse in chat would let the average player know about parsing and what knowledge it can provide. There would be no comments about the numbers being bad or good, so the harassment potential can be ignored.

The average player knows what parsing is, it's been around for decades as both a tool for those that want to use it to improve, and as a tool for those that want to be tools. The latter being the main issue- it's a tool that's used more in pugs specifically to be toxic than to be helpful, and there's no way to sugar coat that fact. The only time 'parses as educational' ever comes up is when people are complaining about not being allowed to use them, but as someone who has been playing WoW for over a decade I've not once seen someone use it to try to help others in a pug- they use it to boost their own ego and call others garbage.

What doesn't make sense here is why you want this- you already have parsing tools clearly or your idea wouldn't even be a possibility, and if you can already use the tools it's a pretty hollow 'protest' move you're suggesting. They've made their stance pretty clear- they don't want this sort of thing because it's toxic, which is true. They won't stop you from doing it on your own, so if you are using it solely for yourself and not in a toxic way, they will do nothing about it. It is a win win situation for literally everyone except for the players that intend to use it in a toxic manner.

[QT_Melon]

The average player knows what parsing is, it's been around for decades as both a tool for those that want to use it to improve, and as a tool for those that want to be tools.

What doesn't make sense here is why you want this- you already have parsing tools clearly or your idea wouldn't even be a possibility, and if you can already use the tools it's a pretty hollow 'protest' move you're suggesting. They've made their stance pretty clear- they don't want this sort of thing because it's toxic, which is true. They won't stop you from doing it on your own, so if you are using it solely for yourself and not in a toxic way, they will do nothing about it. It is a win win situation for literally everyone except for the players that intend to use it in a toxic manner.

The problem is it DOES however leave console players who would like a more precise tool to measure their success out in the dust. The closest they CAN get is Stone Sea Sky or the Lawns.

Personally while I would like something for that, I am not against parsing - but I do think a tool that can outlay other problems without it being number specific can be very useful on all platforms.

When I had made the suggestion on an Ask Yoshi thread for PAX for a tool that would help diagnose latency/clipping issues, someone just said "FFXIV Analysis" in which I ROLL my eyes, because it's like people ONLY think this pertains to PC players.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

The problem is it DOES however leave console players who would like a more precise tool to measure their success out in the dust. The closest they CAN get is Stone Sea Sky or the Lawns.

Personally while I would like something for that, I am not against parsing - but I do think a tool that can outlay other problems without it being number specific can be very useful on all platforms.

When I had made the suggestion on an Ask Yoshi thread for PAX for a tool that would help diagnose latency/clipping issues, someone just said "FFXIV Analysis" in which I ROLL my eyes, because it's like people ONLY think this pertains to PC players.

Personally I don't mind for parsers, but, I don't think Yoshi's concerns regarding how they're generally used is unwarranted. My experience with pugs in FFXIV is a 180 from other games, most notably WoW. Almost entirely positive, a community that doesn't get at each others throats immediately on failure. I did a pug Ramuh Extreme that took the entire allotted time, wiped numerous times, people put in the effort to learn what to do while we were doing it- not one person left, there was no calling each other names. I do an LFR in WoW and the cussing and leaving starts BEFORE the first wipe, I've done dungeons in WoW where half the group leaves because the tank is pulling too many/too few mobs and there's no flexibility from anyone, if someone isn't doing what you want them to it's either kick or afk out.

The general feel I get in FFXIV is they're trying to foster a good community, and it's working, and I'd happily take that over tools that lead to toxicity any day.

That said- it does feel at least people should have tools for self parsing, since there are still required dps/hps for endgame content, and being able to attain such tools on PC and not PS4 definitely would be an advantage. That however is separate from the OP wanting people to put parses in party chat- as there's obviously nothing personal/private about something like that.

[Gula]

Have a hissy fit and punish everyone for it, as usual.

Are you one of those people who think people who do petty crimes shouldn't be punished because it's small crime?

[Aurida]

...who would not be doing anything wrong...

By 'anything wrong' you of course mean the bit that had a 40 minute long lecture about the usage of third party tools in the latest live letter, right? And how they're against the terms of service? All that jazz?

I and many others would love nothing more than a metric by which to evaluate and quantify personal performance, but all this hypothetical is going to do is give the moderation staff a very large and very easy workload to mow through. Furthermore, no amount of raw data or objective facts will change the mind of anyone who's happier to go about the process of permanently revoking your access to the game than they are to go about the process of bettering themselves or the community as a whole.

Just keep your numbers to yourself and wield vote dismissal as a holy sword if you must, but know that the windmills you tilt against are many in number.