Definitions of midcore / hardcore / casual a bit warped here...

[Makeda]

So I'm looking to get into some group stuff in this game...

And I'm looking at assorted recruiting ads on places like the Balance and getting way baffled...

Seeing things like:

"we're a midcore static, we raid 8-days a week for 25 hours a day, must be willing to urinate into a 7-Up bottle while raiding, please attach your Flogs which much be in the top 0.0000000001% because we're just casual, not hardcore or anything..."

Or... ok... I'm being silly there...

But I do see things like:

Raid night are M, T, W, Sun, 7pm-2am, casual-midcore...

And I'm like...

Boy... that ain't casual, ain't midcore... back in WoW that wasn't even hardcore... there are crack addicts who take their addiction less seriously than that...

I get it...

I'm killing my shot at getting into ANY group with this post...

But WTF is up with these recruitment ads?

In any other MMO; if you raid more than once a week, you're not casual. More than twice, you just hit hardcore.

If you're keeping logs period; that's upper midcore to hardcore.

I don't mind this... I just want to be able to actually target myself to the right group...

Back in WoW... where folks would publicly shame each other over logs... odd thing was... guilds realized folks had lives outside the game... and the guy who'd actually offer up his logs usually got laughed out because they really wanted your logs of how you did with them... not the padded ones you put together with your mates in the months after progression... last time I saw a guild other than one that was trying for world-scores that raided more than 2-3 times a week was over a decade ago.

Their hardcore guilds would be seen as 'casual scrubs' here... if I read these recruitment posts right.

Am I just totally looking in the absolute wrong place when I look in the Balance discord? Are they freaks there... or is that normal.

As I type this I'm seeing a group looking for:
"7 days/wk commitment
- virtually any time"

and another:

"Hours:
Mon: 8-10 pm est
Tues: 8-10 pm est
Thurs: 6-10 pm est
Fri: 6-8 pm est"

And then:

"Tuesday-Friday 6:00 PM - 9:00 PM PST"
(unless I read that wrong, that's 4 nights a week). The same ad also has:
Needs to be chill.
Willing to raid on the weekends to get more

... Nah ese; that schedule ain't chill...

And these are not the most intense examples...

Now that WoW is permanently in my rearview mirror thanks to that company's attitude...

I like this game but... where are the people that are not junkies?

I need to find me a better discord to look for them... O.o

sign me as 'casual scrub' or 'pathetic WoW refugee' - your choice I guess. :P

[van_arn]

Midcore doesn't exist.

Hardcore exists only if you're on the bleeding edge of content, are willing and able to put in the hours and time, and can potentially server "medal" clear (so first 3 clears on server). You don't have a schedule, the group merely collectively decides when to sleep.

Casual is everyone else that enters Savage.

If you don't enter Savage, you're not even on the list.

[Vaer]

I usually take those designations as how seriously the group is taking progression and average skill level when compared to the top 0.1% instead of hours played. HC is just the one that has the least amount of variance.

[MPK]

I always assumed it was just hours spent per week

[MitsukiKimura]

You can pretty much tell what kind of group it is with the raiding schedule. Anything more than 3 days a week for 3+ hours is Mid to soft hardcore. Casual is more on the line of 2 hours here and there. Even though I'm confident with AST, I'd never join a hardcore group. Just not my thing.

[linay]

I think it's because the party size is relatively small. So there might be expectation that it would be easier for even people who consider themselves as casuals to gather people together more than once a week.

Or it could be the attitude. Raid long hours, casually, not expecting strict progress or disband.

[Kitfox]

There are no clear definitions and they can refer to either mindset or schedule. You can't really bring in definitions across games because each game and their community is different so the definitions are also different. It's best if you just find a group that fits your own circumstances and goals. You can have a groups with casual schedule and hardcore mindset, or the other way around. Generally the loose definitions tend to be as follows:

Mindset:
-Casual: We just play for fun. It's nice if we clear.
-Midcore: We want to clear before the next raid tier comes out.
-Hardcore: We want to clear as soon as possible.

Schedule:
-Casual: 2 days a week or less. Less than 3 hours a day.
-Midcore: 3 days a week. 3 hours a day.
-Hardcore: 4-7 days a week. 3-24 hours a day.

One particular aspect about schedules that muddies the definitions is that you can have a group that raids everyday until they clear a fight, but after that only farms the weekly reclears for like 2 hours once a week.

Generally you just want to figure out 3 things and ask these questions from the groups you apply to as well:
-What is your mindset?
-What is kind of schedule fits you?
-What do you want to do after your group clears?

Rather than trying put yourself into any of the categories, figure out what you want and find a group that suits your goals.

If you've found The Balance Discord, I'd take a look at the server listings there for your data center's raiding discord.

[HyoMinPark]

There are no clear definitions and they can refer to either mindset or schedule. You can't really bring in definitions across games because each game and their community is different so the definitions are also different. It's best if you just find a group that fits your own circumstances and goals. You can have a groups with casual schedule and hardcore mindset, or the other way around. Generally the loose definitions tend to be as follows:

Mindset:
-Casual: We just play for fun. It's nice if we clear.
-Midcore: We want to clear before the next raid tier comes out.
-Hardcore: We want to clear as soon as possible.

Schedule:
-Casual: 2 days a week or less. Less than 3 hours a day.
-Midcore: 3 days a week. 3 hours a day.
-Hardcore: 4-7 days a week. 3-24 hours a day.

One particular aspect about schedules that muddies the definitions is that you can have a group that raids everyday until they clear a fight, but after that only farms the weekly reclears for like 2 hours once a week.

Generally you just want to figure out 3 things and ask these questions from the groups you apply to as well:
-What is your mindset?
-What is kind of schedule fits you?
-What do you want to do after your group clears?

Rather than trying put yourself into any of the categories, figure out what you want and find a group that suits your goals.

If you've found The Balance Discord, I'd take a look at the server listings there for your data center's raiding discord.

I think this is a really good definition of what groups likely mean when they say “casual”, “midcore”, or “hardcore”.

In addition, I want to mention other goals a group may have that might fall into one mindset or another.

Casual: the group likely doesn’t care about optimization or damage; just wants to clear, and doesn’t mind if it takes a while to do so
Midcore: the group likely cares about relatively speedy clears (perhaps clearing Savage before the next patch comes out); may care about their damage/parsing, but not to the point of min-maxing or uber optimization
Hardcore: cares about clearing as fast as possible (i.e., Week 1/2 kills), and cares about optimization/min-maxing; may also care about speedkilling

Obviously, you can also put in a semi-hardcore somewhere between midcore and hardcore, where a group may care about killing the fights fast, but may not care too much about going back for parse runs, optimization, or speedkilling.


Then there’s also whether or not a group plans on doing Ultimate. More “casual” groups may poke at it for fun, not really caring if they clear or not, or even get very far in the fight; while midcore and hardcore groups will likely want to go in for a clear or multiple clears or even optimization (definitely hardcore mentality on this last one).


I think the definition goes far deeper than simply how many hours a group meets a week. I’ve known groups with a very casual mindset that raided 3~4 days a week. And I have heard of people doing “weekend statics” where they raid as many hours as they can to try and get in as much progress as possible.

[Ryaz]

Trying to define causal, midcore, and hardcore is an exercise in futility honestly as people have different definitions. Some base it on difficulty of content cleared. Some base it on time played. If it's the former, I'm mostly a casual player. I do ex trials but couldn't care less about savages and ultimate because I don't want to structure my schedule and life around a game. If it's the latter, I'd be midcore to hardcore because I play this game a LOT on my own time and it's mostly the only game I play right now.

But frankly I find the whole casual vs hardcore thing stupid. Just a way for people to be nasty and condescending to each other (filthy casuals vs toxic elitists). Theres plenty in this game to satisfy all types.

[Niyuka]

I raid 2 days a week, 2 hrs per night with my guild. We cleared everything except Ultimates, which we havent even tried yet.
On these boards, I have been called hardcore when advocating for content that fits this kind of raiding (ie savage level content that doesnt require a ton of time investment for preparation, where skill/focus is more important than rote repetitive training/timesink).
I think the majority of the community on these boards use the term "casual" to mean "low playskill and no interest in changing that" , but dont want to actually say that. Otherwise, I am as casual as it gets.

I used to be hardcore in other games. 3-4 raids a week depending on what was clear, keep everything raid-relevant up to level ASAP. Still doable with full-time work, but then its your main hobby pretty much, so I scaled back.

And even that is not top 1%.

I think there is a seriously warped perception of how many people can clear E4S. Its quite a lot. Its just in the interest of some players to talk that number down, in order to bash a playstyle they arent capable of.