It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Canada_bangs]

We call this a slippery slope argument.

"I want to be able to not see ridiculous/ugly/jarring outfits" does not equal "I want racial purity ingame".

Maybe you have more trust in people then I do.. but I made the same comment a while back and while yes.. thats a jump. I don't think it's THAT much of a jump. Again... we already seen people ask this in this very thread. Yes anyone with logic behind them and whatnot would not make this claim. But we're not talking about those people. We're talking about the other 98% of the human race here. So no.. I don't trust people to not make that jump.. matter of fact. I fully expect it.

For another example... look at the holy thread for people doing exactly that. " Oh no.. I can't spam holy in someone's face all day... I can get ban. Welp, might as well try to ban people doing their moves in a dungeon. Or try to ban bards, or any other insane thing here missing all the context."

[Krotoan]

I've never, ever in years of game and AFKing in hubs and I mean it, I never once in my gaming lifetime on any MMO witnessed an argument by people offended by a silly attire. I never read a single line of anybody being mad at someone doing silly gear or being offended by a Colibri Pink bridemaid dress on the world chat E V E R. People having fun together being silly with no other reason to have fun ?

And where did I say it was "offensive"? Someone posts a line specifically about intentionally making choices the OP specifically objects to AND placing themselves in common area AND mockingly states nothing can be done about it. Explain to me please how that's supposed to be taken any other way than petulance?


I have also never complained to anyone in-game about their appearance OR expected anyone to make accommodations based on my own choices that would make them change their own behavior. I also never will. However when an option is presented that requires no effort or change of behavior on someone elses part and solves even a minor problem I have with a game I play, I'll gladly speak up in support.

how about you stop being special snowflakes and have fun rather than being offended by what make MMO so special ?

And again, right back at you. How about you consider what makes a video game environment so special such as the ability for each player to modify their own experience without affecting anyone elses and not get so offended at someones request to customize?

Maybe you have more trust in people then I do.. but I made the same comment a while back and while yes.. thats a jump. I don't think it's THAT much of a jump. Again... we already seen people ask this in this very thread. Yes anyone with logic behind them and whatnot would not make this claim. But we're not talking about those people. We're talking about the other 98% of the human race here. So no.. I don't trust people to not make that jump.. matter of fact. I fully expect it.

I don't think I've seen a serious reply asking for racial purity in the whole 150 pages (and I've read nearly all of it). There were jokes and some people saying it as a counter argument to try and demonize those who are asking for the feature but nobody who actually is asking for the option seriously suggested having a "all white hume (or whatever)" option. I won't deny that out there, there is SOMEONE who wants this. I've yet to see someone brave (or dumb) enough to actually support or announce that request though. People MIGHT want it, but the idea that it would gain traction is pretty farfetched.

For another example... look at the holy thread for people doing exactly that. " Oh no.. I can't spam holy in someone's face all day... I can get ban. Welp, might as well try to ban people doing their moves in a dungeon. Or try to ban bards, or any other insane thing here missing all the context."

This is called "being vindictive". "If I can't do this obnoxious thing I'm gonna take this ruling to it's most ludicrous extreme and see if I can't make others suffer for my limitation". This is what children or immature people do.

[Theodric]

I'm not a fan of the slippery slope argument, since the development team can quite easily draw a line in the sand and refuse to budge on an issue - which is something they have been doing consistently in regards to certain matters. Their handling of mods is an excellent example, though to use something that has been implemented...I'll point to the easy mode for solo duties. Some people were stating that it, too, would be a slippery slope and that the entire game would be made very easy. Yet in reality we're still getting content that is fairly challenging as well as content that isn't challenging but still isn't a case of blindly pressing a few buttons in order to win.

I'm reluctant to call it deliberate scaremongering, though it does come across as such to a degree. If the feature proposed in the original post were to be added, I doubt the development team would ever take it beyond glamour.

[Nariel]

The "slippery slope" isn't that bad of an argument, racism have nothing to do with it, now its people clothe and what prevent people from asking that you can switch off Viera/Au ra/Miqu'ot of the game and replace them with more human like character because a handfull of people don't feel like seing animal based race in their game or even because its not roleplay enough to see two viera 5 meter from each other in the same city. How far will it go ? How many filter, how many switch do you actualy need to be Ok with different people playing the same game at the same time ? Can I still ride my behemot mount or you want to filter that too ? My Pod 54 don't bother you too much in your bubble ? want a filter for that ? Is my Haircut ok for you or its too extravagant ?

[SamRF]

---

Alright then I'll try again. Ultimate compromise of compromised compromises:

You wouldn't get the option to change 1 specific character. If you toggle this option you'll change every char into a different set character for the job (except for yourself). Have a couple random alternatives for each job in every race (maybe randomize skin color each time). Make it so that you can only toggle this option on once every 10 minutes (you can however turn it off whenever you want), so you won't be able to toggle repeatedly until you get preferred race/skin.

[Jadedsins]

The "slippery slope" isn't that bad of an argument, racism have nothing to do with it, now its people clothe and what prevent people from asking that you can switch off Viera/Au ra/Miqu'ot of the game and replace them with more human like character because a handfull of people don't feel like seing animal based race in their game or even because its not roleplay enough to see two viera 5 meter from each other in the same city. How far will it go ? How many filter, how many switch do you actualy need to be Ok with different people playing the same game at the same time ? Can I still ride my behemot mount or you want to filter that too ? My Pod 54 don't bother you too much in your bubble ? want a filter for that ? Is my Haircut ok for you or its too extravagant ?

Bingo. My point was that if silly outfits enough to break your immersion, it just means that your immersion fu is weak. Maybe it comes from Role playing over the years, but if it can happen in real life. I don't see why it can not happen in the game base off the lore and stuff.


The immersion excuse is just silly. The main story is not the only part of the game, and If you pick to ignore the rest of the story that is on you. But if we give people like this any sort of inch. They will take a mile. I mean the HORROR of someone who wants to be silly in a MMO. I mean doing that same dungeon 8 times is not immersion breaking, but a bunny suit? The horror.

[Krotoan]

The "slippery slope" isn't that bad of an argument,

Slippery slope is a famous type of logical fallacy. The general idea being that arguing one change should not happen because it will cause some other unwanted change to happen. While Slippery slope arguments SOUND logical, they assume far too much and when broken down don't necessarily make sense if the logic is followed.

racism have nothing to do with it, now its people clothe and what prevent people from asking that you can switch off Viera/Au ra/Miqu'ot of the game and replace them with more human like character because a handfull of people don't feel like seing animal based race in their game or even because its not roleplay enough to see two viera 5 meter from each other in the same city. How far will it go ?

The difference being what the devs would actually implement or tolerate. The players can ask for the world but what is within limit or reason is up to the devs. YES , people will ask for other things, but that's not a reason to not do something. One such example might be how we have Trust NPC's to do story dungeons now. People have asked for this for a while but we still need other people to play many MANY other parts of the game. People were afraid when squadrons came out that people would just solo everything eventually and queue times would be horrendous. This hasn't been the case even with the new dungeons and trials and raids still need people to play along with world events and even some seasonal events. Slippery slope logic would say that the game would become a solo player only world. Didn't happen.

How many filter, how many switch do you actualy need to be Ok with different people playing the same game at the same time ? Can I still ride my behemot mount or you want to filter that too ? My Pod 54 don't bother you too much in your bubble ? want a filter for that ? Is my Haircut ok for you or its too extravagant ?

NEED? Currently the only thing we NEED are options to keep other players from griefing such as the performance muting option or the blacklist and even then , those systems are lacking in some areas. Nobody in particular NEEDs this option but it would improve the experience for some people. The idea here is that you can worry about your experience and I can worry about mine.

Bingo. My point was that if silly outfits enough to break your immersion, it just means that your immersion fu is weak. Maybe it comes from Role playing over the years, but if it can happen in real life. I don't see why it can not happen in the game base off the lore and stuff.

So now, because I don't play or think the way you do, I'm wrong?

The immersion excuse is just silly. The main story is not the only part of the game, and If you pick to ignore the rest of the story that is on you. But if we give people like this any sort of inch. They will take a mile. I mean the HORROR of someone who wants to be silly in a MMO. I mean doing that same dungeon 8 times is not immersion breaking, but a bunny suit? The horror.

There's that slope again...

[Jadedsins]

Slippery slope is a famous type of logical fallacy. The general idea being that arguing one change should not happen because it will cause some other unwanted change to happen. While Slippery slope arguments SOUND logical, they assume far too much and when broken down don't necessarily make sense if the logic is followed.


The difference being what the devs would actually implement or tolerate. The players can ask for the world but what is within limit or reason is up to the devs. YES , people will ask for other things, but that's not a reason to not do something. One such example might be how we have Trust NPC's to do story dungeons now. People have asked for this for a while but we still need other people to play many MANY other parts of the game. People were afraid when squadrons came out that people would just solo everything eventually and queue times would be horrendous. This hasn't been the case even with the new dungeons and trials and raids still need people to play along with world events and even some seasonal events. Slippery slope logic would say that the game would become a solo player only world. Didn't happen.



NEED? Currently the only thing we NEED are options to keep other players from griefing such as the performance muting option or the blacklist and even then , those systems are lacking in some areas. Nobody in particular NEEDs this option but it would improve the experience for some people. The idea here is that you can worry about your experience and I can worry about mine.



So now, because I don't play or think the way you do, I'm wrong?



There's that slope again...

I am fine with that slope. It is fun, and I'm going to keep using it. Be it true or not does not matter. People who claim immersion, but does not follow the lore of the game all of it, and just does the main story. Yet, still wants to whine about immersion. It takes a certain someone that my little slope fits well with.

[Krotoan]

Be it true or not does not matter.

.. That statement devalues the heck out of any credibility your arguments against would have. I do my best to try and see things from other peoples perspectives but the absolute disregard for factual or even logical backing behind motivation or reasoning is not something I will ever understand.

[Lambdafish]

Alright then I'll try again. Ultimate compromise of compromised compromises:

You wouldn't get the option to change 1 specific character. If you toggle this option you'll change every char into a different set character for the job (except for yourself). Have a couple random alternatives for each job in every race (maybe randomize skin color each time). Make it so that you can only toggle this option on once every 10 minutes (you can however turn it off whenever you want), so you won't be able to toggle repeatedly until you get preferred race/skin.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you, what you are suggesting isn't the compromise, it's literally the request. If you are anything like me, what they are wearing ultimately doesn't matter so long as it is unassuming, whether its job gear or preset generic outfits, I don't think anyone minds (the entire point is we aren't looking at the glamour right?).

Your point about control is important. This isn't about targeting people, it would be a blanket change, that is the only thing that is important. People aren't asking for "I want to change this person into this specific glamour", they are asking "can I turn off glamours to maintain immersion". That request is enough, and it doesn't need much control from the player, its just a toggle on or off. The rest of it about randomising and limiting the time I think is unnecessary and would take additional work for no benefit.