Prepulling mobs as healer

[SamRF]

That's fine, but then don't get surprised when they react negatively to your behaviour. You trying to justify it shows there is a problem to begin with, because it needs justification.

You said it yourself. You do it because you're bored, and use efficiency as the excuse after. It's very honest of you, but then maybe don't wonder why people don't like it?

Good point I guess, I won't be surprised now after this thread. Just completely didn't understand why you'd get upset, cause I really don't see myself get mad in that situation as tank (I main tank). Instead of getting upset I'd say: "sorry for pulling too little". I don't feel entitled to determine the pace and amount of mobs as tank.

[Penthea]

If I'm on a healer and I've pulled extra mobs, you can bet your rear end that its because I know you aren't playing to the full potential I've seen you do earlier in the instance and am confident in mine and your abilities both.

Sorry but you're not some random pug's teacher. It's not really appropriate for you to decide to do something that forces them to play at what you consider their full potential.

And do you not consider the tank slowed down on purpose? Maybe they feel a bit tired, or they're distracted by something and didn't think it would be a good time to do a huge pull?

I'm not a fan of single pack pulls because they're usually boring for me. But this doesn't mean I think I have the right to force everyone else to deal with a different situation just for my own entertainment, or because I have judged that they're playing below their peak.

[3c-33]

It's just that the whole word "effiency" makes me instantly sick. I hear it 8 hours per day, 5 days per week at work where it pressured on you every second like a mountain. The game is the last place where I want to hear about effiency as if I'm at work again after just finishing my work. Sometimes you just want relax.

I get that, that's why I try to avoid using that word, kinda got a laugh out of this lol

More related, as a person that's went through this game with massive social anxiety gating me in just about everything, tanking was the one thing that I never had issues with and in fact preferred to play for this reason. The role is so easy to be good at and nobody judges the tanks as hard as people wanna make it out to be so I have no idea where all the "tank anxiety" stigma comes from.

Like, when I was still a huge noob + nervous wreck, I tried playing tank for the first time in toto rak, it was the scariest thing ever. I said I was first time tank, everyone said that's okay and encouraged me, I did two groups at a time and it went really well. After that, I no longer found it scary, and in fact preferred it on all my first time runs which were always the more intimidating things to me. Because the big hp bar means you basically ignore most mechanics no matter how bad you mess up.

All these "rules" and "etiquette" ive never understood. Again, ive had healers rescuing me into stuff before, never felt offended. I thought "oh they want me to pull bigger, okay." The idea that it's rude is a made up assumption that may or not actually be true. You can't know what they're thinking if there is no verbal communication hence why I never made the assumption in the first place,even though my mind loves making assumptions. I don't know how someone could play tank a lot and somehow still be nervous about it when its not only easy but often thanked in the form of commendations' since it's really easy to tell when a tank is doing well.

Neither did it ever make me feel like I'm entitled to be the person who decides how other people play. I don't have the right to choose how fast we go. Even though they do somewhat dictate the pace, it's not a literal rule in the tos that says they have to. All of this talk is needlessly convoluted anyway. If you go in and pull big there's a 95% chance you end up fine, if not you just move on. And someone pulling for the tank doesn't mean anything. It means they want bigger pulls, it is not a personal vendetta against the person. Acting otherwise and refusing to tank the mobs is taking it wayyy too seriously when it's just a game and doesn't matter anyway lmao. Tank etiquette is made up

[Enla]

If someone isn't comfortable mega pulling then forcing them to do so isn't going to help matters much. If anything it's going to cause them to panic, especially if they're new, and cause a potential wipe. If someone doesn't take a gentle suggestion to pull more just leave it alone. Most of the time the tanks I've been with will slowly try to pick up more and more packs if they're able as they get a feel for the dungeon and their healer anyways if they're new and/or unsure.

It should also be said that if people don't trust their healers they aren't going to omega pull either. I've either tanked or been the DPS for a tank friend in a wide variety of dungeons where I wouldn't trust the healer with a pet rock, let alone the ability to set the pace of the dungeon and heal.

[Vulcann]

Tank main here who also heals quite regularly... Some of the opinions in here are real hot takes that quite frankly are coming from people who shouldn't be tanking. Plain and simple.

no the people who are in the wrong is ANYONE who queues up with a random tank and pulls. yes accidents happen and in some cases a person outside of the tank might pull an add and in that case the tank should pick it up.

HOWEVER the way the later dungeons in FFXIV are laid out if you are pulling adds then you are doing it intentionally and yes that is WRONG. i don't give a crap if you are bored or if you are trying to be more "efficient" or whatever your excuse to be an asshole is. the tanks job is to set the pace of the dungeon and pull how THEY want to pull. if you don't like it then leave the roulette and queue with players that will play how you want to play. don't force your ways on random players that you don't know their skill level or playstyle.

like this shouldn't even have to be a post or a question, when did the community get like this that people are actually justifying the original posters bullshit ideas.

[3c-33]

Tank main here who also heals quite regularly... Some of the opinions in here are real hot takes that quite frankly are coming from people who shouldn't be tanking. Plain and simple. You tank whatever is engaged with the party, that is your role and why you are the job you are.

Dungeons are a team effort, and you do not know if someone might have accidentally pulled mobs or not. Do not assume and do not be spiteful. If you claim to lead; which several in this thread have said that's why they tank, then learn your job, set a good example and don't be petty like that. Learn to adapt, learn to take of every mob that is in an individual pull —whether you first engaged it or not— or don't tank at all. It's just that simple.

Acting high and mighty and saying you will let your DPS or Healers die for pulling is asinine. Do you really want that encounter to take more time than needed because you foolishly decided to be stubborn and not do your job?

If I'm on a healer and I've pulled extra mobs, you can bet your rear end that its because I know you aren't playing to the full potential I've seen you do earlier in the instance and am confident in mine and your abilities both. Or, we're in Malikah's Well and I've run ahead to aggro the golems at the top because waiting for the first set to die, then aggroing the others, is a massive waste of time for all of us.

All of this. The amount of tank debate over nothing that goes on here really leaves me dumbfounded. Everything that echoes around here just create problems that don't exist.

[3c-33]

the tanks job is to set the pace of the dungeon and pull how THEY want to pull.

Who said that, the tank police?

[Rae88]

All these "rules" and "etiquette" ive never understood.

The attitude came from older games I think

In vanilla world of warcraft getting threat/emnity was hard. In classic some tanks choose to duel wield in a desperate attempt to do more damage which they believe is the only/best way they can hold threat/emnity on mobs (not really true but whatever). There was a mechanic that helped out tanks though.

The initial person who pulled a mob got an advantage on threat. For someone to rip threat off the one who pulled, melee would need to hit 110% threat level and ranged 130% threat level to actually rip threat. This allowed tanks some leeway. But ...

if someone other than the tank pulled, now the tank has to gain 110% of their threat to rip aggro from them instead of just 100%. And I believe for the person who initially pulled to rip aggro back they will only need to do 100%. So it's easier to hold threat/emnity when you're the initial person who pulled, and it stresses out tanks so much when people pull for them

If people pulled for you in vanilla/classic WoW, as a tank, you might regain aggro on 1 or 2 out of 6 mobs, which means every trash pull devolves into chaos with the tank running all over the place desperately trying to gain threat. This is very stressful when it happens over and over again. DPS players who never played vanilla didn't really understand this which lead to lots and lots of tank tears when the game first released.

This doesn't apply in modern WoW or FFXIV. Hitting the AOE button instantly grabs all aggro/threat. So it becomes a cooldown issue and an etiquette issue I think. It also becomes a discussion on whether the tank leads a group or the group decides as a whole.

I think both points of view are valid. It's sad when the different playstyles clash in dungeons

[Centershock]

Good point. I guess this post is a semi-rant. I just don't get this etiquette players seem to praise in this game for what is right or wrong when you are obviously maxing effeciency. Especially as healer, cause it's your job in the end to deal with irregularities.

You can't force your own efficiency on everyone else. We are all different. We all go our own pace. If your tank is not pulling everything and you [as a healer] pull the rest and the tank leaves you to die, you are only slowing down EVERYONE's efficiency and wasting more time.

This is not a solo game. This is an MMORPG. If you aren't willing to work with other people [read: pugs], perhaps you should re-evaluate your priorities here. (i.e. find a group of friends to run content with and not pug them.)

Edit: The fact that you've admitted to doing this when you're bored makes this situation even worse.

[SamRF]

Sorry but you're not some random pug's teacher. It's not really appropriate for you to decide to do something that forces them to play at what you consider their full potential.

And do you not consider the tank slowed down on purpose? Maybe they feel a bit tired, or they're distracted by something and didn't think it would be a good time to do a huge pull?

I'm not a fan of single pack pulls because they're usually boring for me. But this doesn't mean I think I have the right to force everyone else to deal with a different situation just for my own entertainment, or because I have judged that they're playing below their peak.

At this point, I think the reason why your and other's opinion on this issue sounds so absurd to me, is the fact that I'm used to community of (most?) other online games that are usually much less forgiving (and admittedly also more toxic).

I don't like the fact that those communities tend to be toxic and extremely harsh sometimes, but seeing this thread, you people seem extreme in the opposite way in my view. Being nice and careful about other player's feelings seems to be the standard, which is a good thing, until we get to the point where everybody gets too sensitive about negligible stuff and treats everybody like some kind of entitled snowflake. This also ends up being toxic imo and will be a turn off to some players. I don't mean this to be offensive, just my thought and concern (which can be flawed of course).

I shouldn't speak on this tbh cause I'm the one who created this thread in first place wondering why people get upset and find my situation rude, so in a way I'm the one that feels conflicted and entitled to less complaints. However I think it's just that the fact that I obviously have efficiency on my side in given situation that most other gaming communities would take my side in similar case, while you people prioritize players their feelings and comfort, which can be a good thing, but imo only to a certain extend.