Prepulling mobs as healer

[Wolwosh]

If you are doung 60 content with 75 gear and still pull 2 at once i'm pulling

[Penthea]

If I'm on a healer and I've pulled extra mobs, you can bet your rear end that its because I know you aren't playing to the full potential I've seen you do earlier in the instance and am confident in mine and your abilities both.

Sorry but you're not some random pug's teacher. It's not really appropriate for you to decide to do something that forces them to play at what you consider their full potential.

And do you not consider the tank slowed down on purpose? Maybe they feel a bit tired, or they're distracted by something and didn't think it would be a good time to do a huge pull?

I'm not a fan of single pack pulls because they're usually boring for me. But this doesn't mean I think I have the right to force everyone else to deal with a different situation just for my own entertainment, or because I have judged that they're playing below their peak.

[SamRF]

Sorry but you're not some random pug's teacher. It's not really appropriate for you to decide to do something that forces them to play at what you consider their full potential.

And do you not consider the tank slowed down on purpose? Maybe they feel a bit tired, or they're distracted by something and didn't think it would be a good time to do a huge pull?

I'm not a fan of single pack pulls because they're usually boring for me. But this doesn't mean I think I have the right to force everyone else to deal with a different situation just for my own entertainment, or because I have judged that they're playing below their peak.

At this point, I think the reason why your and other's opinion on this issue sounds so absurd to me, is the fact that I'm used to community of (most?) other online games that are usually much less forgiving (and admittedly also more toxic).

I don't like the fact that those communities tend to be toxic and extremely harsh sometimes, but seeing this thread, you people seem extreme in the opposite way in my view. Being nice and careful about other player's feelings seems to be the standard, which is a good thing, until we get to the point where everybody gets too sensitive about negligible stuff and treats everybody like some kind of entitled snowflake. This also ends up being toxic imo and will be a turn off to some players. I don't mean this to be offensive, just my thought and concern (which can be flawed of course).

I shouldn't speak on this tbh cause I'm the one who created this thread in first place wondering why people get upset and find my situation rude, so in a way I'm the one that feels conflicted and entitled to less complaints. However I think it's just that the fact that I obviously have efficiency on my side in given situation that most other gaming communities would take my side in similar case, while you people prioritize players their feelings and comfort, which can be a good thing, but imo only to a certain extend.

[Ammokkx]

At this point, I think the reason why your and other's opinion on this issue sounds so absurd to me, is the fact that I'm used to community of (most?) other online games that are usually much less forgiving (and admittedly also more toxic).

I don't like the fact that those communities tend to be toxic and extremely harsh sometimes, but seeing this thread, you people seem extreme in the opposite way in my view. Being nice and careful about other player's feelings seems to be the standard, which is a good thing, until we get to the point where everybody gets too sensitive about negligible stuff and treats everybody like some kind of entitled snowflake. This also ends up being toxic imo and will be a turn off to some players. I don't mean this to be offensive, just my thought and concern (which can be flawed of course).

I shouldn't speak on this tbh cause I'm the one who created this thread in first place wondering why people get upset and find my situation rude, so in a way I'm the one that feels conflicted and entitled to less complaints. However I think it's just that the fact that I obviously have efficiency on my side in given situation that most other gaming communities would take my side in similar case, while you people prioritize players their feelings and comfort, which can be a good thing, but imo only to a certain extend.

See, here's where I'll nuance my opinions.

Right now, we've strictly been talking in terms of "roulette content", AKA low-tier stuff. Roulettes are put in place so veterans fill the lobbies of newer players, so they can experience the parts of the game that absolutely require multiple players without getting screwed. Now let's take this into account.

-In a 4-player roulette, you only have 1 tank. They should absolutely decide the pace of the dungeon, because they're the only one that can take the hits. If that tank does not wish to deal with massive mobs, the healer should respect that. The tank could be wanting to take it easy for any number of reasons. On the other way around, the tank should keep in mind when a healer is not comfortable with a mega-pull (in case the healer can't keep up). You wouldn't believe how many longstop runs I've seen get wiped on the first room because the tank took too many mobs at once without stopping to think that the healer might be new or not very good at it.
-In 8-player roulettes, you get 2 tanks and 2 healers. As far as I'm aware, very little to no dungeons use this system, only trials and raids. The former has no pulling issue, and the latter has people signing up for extreme content, so there's an expectancy to know what you're doing. If we're talking the MSQ dungeons, everyone rushes those, so this complaint most likely doesn't apply there. If it does, nobody complains, because at least 6 people know what they're doing regardless.
-In 24-player roulettes, AKA raids, this stops being an issue entirely because even if one alliance is complete trash, the other two can pick up the slack. Of course the tank should be expected to know what they're doing, but it's not an absolute disaster if they don't, because two other tanks can do their job just as well. If all three are shit, then you've just entered the 5th circle of hell.

And, of course, if you do savage or extreme content, you're expected to play your A-game. Those are very much things you opt into, and is only for those with a drive to play at their peak.

But that's the thing- the more players get involved, the more expectations get raised. Paradoxically, it also means you stop noticing if it's only a very select number fucking up, since there's so many other people to fill the void.

It is absolutely rude to pull ahead in 4-man dungeons, because the tank could have any number of reasons for playing, and most of all, it's easy content. People play this game to relax, and some would like to take it more easy than others. In these situations, you should respect if they don't want mass pulls, because it's not content where you can go into it expecting the best possible play at all time. Ironically I usually find it's the overeager tanks who pull the whole dungeon without a healer who can keep up to be the problem, but that's beside the point.

Expect people at their best in content where you're expected to play your best. Don't do it in lower levelled, or lower skilled ones, because not everyone is looking for that there.

I'm reminded of the "mediocrity should not be the standard" thread and how similar issues came up. Quite frankly, if it's not optional content, let people play at their pace. People need to get through it at one point or another, and someone taking it slow and steady shouldn't be a problem there.

[Enla]

I wanted to give a reply to this but my post went over the character limit so here's a link to a G docs instead.

You can go back and edit your post to get past the character limit.

[Ammokkx]

You can go back and edit your post to get past the character limit.

I'm 50% over it. Even if I cut out the quote (which, initially, wasn't even the whole thing), I still have around 600 characters to cut down on. Not quite in the revisionist mood to make it concise enough when I can just link to an external source to make my point as-was.

[Penthea]

At this point, I think the reason why your and other's opinion on this issue sounds so absurd to me, is the fact that I'm used to community of (most?) other online games that are usually much less forgiving (and admittedly also more toxic).

I've played quite a few mmos and this has not been my experience for the most part, but I obviously can't say if I have played the same games as you so it could simply be a case that your gaming background greatly differs to mine. From what you say I wouldn't be surprised if you played very pvp-driven games because being noticeably less forgiving is a trait those often have.

I don't like the fact that those communities tend to be toxic and extremely harsh sometimes, but seeing this thread, you people seem extreme in the opposite way in my view. Being nice and careful about other player's feelings seems to be the standard, which is a good thing, until we get to the point where everybody gets too sensitive about negligible stuff and treats everybody like some kind of entitled snowflake. This also ends up being toxic imo and will be a turn off to some players. I don't mean this to be offensive, just my thought and concern (which can be flawed of course).

I don't think it's snowflake mentality to not pull if you're not the tank given that is the standard in the trinity system. If anything a person claiming that they have a right to pull even when they're not a tank and even when the group doesn't want that, just because they are bored, could be argued as a snowflake mentality.

However I think it's just that the fact that I obviously have efficiency on my side in given situation that most other gaming communities would take my side in similar case, while you people prioritize players their feelings and comfort, which can be a good thing, but imo only to a certain extend.

I think you are making a very blanket statement by saying most gaming communities rate efficiency very high. I personally found that this isn't the case in communities as a whole, and those who feel this way tend to be a sub-community who often play higher difficulty content, which in the case of this game is often people who raid savage, or aim to do so.

I don't think your problem isn't understanding why tanks feel a certain way. I think your problem is not understanding that many types of players play this game and they all have different goals and different ways of achieving them. Some players are more like you and enjoy being as efficient as possible, and other players play this game to unwind and prefer a more chilled out pace. You also need to consider experience can vary as well. Just because someone doesn't have a sprout icon doesn't mean they have been tanking for a long time, or have tanked remotely recently.

Essentially you need to manage your expectations. If you're doing roulette/msq content you have to expect to run into players who cannot or do not want to play at the pace you want. I have said many times in this thread that I find single pack pulls boring, but I understand not everyone is as experienced, confident or as "efficient" as I am, and that being a player like me is way above the minimum requirement for the content.

Pugging is lottery, and when you're doing roulette/msq content the results often tend to be people who don't have efficiency as a primary goal because that content is aimed at casual players. In ex and above expecting the sort of efficiency you like isn't unreasonable because the content does demand more from players and error is much more devastating.

Make friends with a tank. Better yet make friends with a whole group who like to play the way you do, and do your roulettes with them. I see this as the only solution for you if you do not feel like adjusting your expectations to the content you're doing.

[Solarra]

Personally, I expect the tank to set the pace and I don't have an issue with the odd slow run in DF. Random groups are random. If you want a consistent experience you need to make friends and use PF or go with Trusts.
Stepping out of your role as healer and pulling is rude. I'm not surprised people don't respond well when you do it. I know it's common in other games (eg WoW) to treat the rest of your party like a bunch of npcs but that doesn't mean it's right.

Being nice and careful about other player's feelings seems to be the standard, which is a good thing, until we get to the point where everybody gets too sensitive about negligible stuff and treats everybody like some kind of entitled snowflake.
... I obviously have efficiency on my side in given situation that most other gaming communities would take my side...

The thing is, everything has a price. You say you appreciate that we have a nice community, you've noticed people are generally polite and treat others with consideration, but at the same time, you want to go around treating others with no consideration whatsoever. Of course you are getting push-back. If enough people behaved like you, our nice, friendly community would cease to exist.
Ask yourself, is it really behaving like an 'entitled snowflake' to treat others with consideration while expecting a degree of politeness in return, or would that label be more appropriate for someone who goes against the generally accepted conventions and insists that everyone ought to adapt to them?

[Saefinn]

The thing is, everything has a price. You say you appreciate that we have a nice community, you've noticed people are generally polite and treat others with consideration, but at the same time, you want to go around treating others with no consideration whatsoever. Of course you are getting push-back. If enough people behaved like you, our nice, friendly community would cease to exist.
Ask yourself, is it really behaving like an 'entitled snowflake' to treat others with consideration while expecting a degree of politeness in return, or would that label be more appropriate for someone who goes against the generally accepted conventions and insists that everyone ought to adapt to them?

Very much this and eloquently put. It's not about being entitled snowflakes. "Entitled" and "snowflakes" are two buzz words that get thrown around a lot outside of their actual intended meaning.